Women’s Self-Supported 14er FKT

[shays_days]

Why are other 14ers like Sunlight Spire not included on the list? Seems very arbitrary.

The only arbitrary peak I can think of is North Massive for winter FKT attempts and possibly the unranked named 14ers (53 vs 58). Sunlight Spire is a poor example for the argument as it is not a 14er and it is not ranked, and it never has been. Its elevation is 13,996 feet, https://listsofjohn.com/peak/67.

Sunlight Spire was considered 14,000 feet from 2006 until the updated LIDAR findings in 2021.

[HikerGuy]

Why are other 14ers like Sunlight Spire not included on the list? Seems very arbitrary.

The only arbitrary peak I can think of is North Massive for winter FKT attempts and possibly the unranked named 14ers (53 vs 58). Sunlight Spire is a poor example for the argument as it is not a 14er and it is not ranked, and it never has been. Its elevation is 13,996 feet, https://listsofjohn.com/peak/67.

Sunlight Spire was considered 14,000 feet from 2006 until the updated LIDAR findings in 2021.

Poor punctuation on my part, meant that it has never been ranked. And it is not a named geographical point. I'll update my post.

[madbuck]

I wonder if any of the people on this thread would fight this hard for access to 6262 on the Hogback (it has a house on it) or any of the other private peaks in Jefferson County.

I know the answer and the selective outrage is rather obvious.

Selective about a 14er…on the site…14ers.com…?

[Rollie Free]

No one asked?
Is this going to involve high heels?

[MaryinColorado]

I 100% agree with this comment. I honestly wish Carlos would just close Culebra Peak to all hikers so that it could be an even playing field. The purpose of this FKT is to test athletic and mental limits not to see who has the most connections. I absolutely love the logistical component of planning peak order and routes. It is truly a puzzle. But, as you mentioned, being stuck in the position of whether to trespass or not crosses a line and undermines what this FKT is about. Obviously, no one wants to trespass given the option but there needs to be a consensus about what constitutes a record, which is what I’m trying to assess now. While it may not be as personally fulfilling, I would happily climb the next highest or comparable peaks.

Did I read that right? Because figuring out the FKT stuff is difficult for you in relation to Culebra, you would prefer access to be revoked for everybody? You'd prefer that the rest of us not be able to enjoy such a beautiful peak because you want things to be easier for you and other FKTers?

Those of you in pursuit of records, y'all are not more special than other hikers, you're just doing something different than the rest of us. It's hard to respect an FKTer if they fail to consider the good of the 14er/peak community at large in favor of their own endeavor or their own means to an end.

Good luck figuring everything out.

Yes, I would prefer for Culebra to be shut down. I’ve said this for years. Sorry if the egos of all you peakbaggers will be harmed for not being able to tick another one off your list. Boo hoo. There are plenty of other beautiful peaks out there. More beautiful. Less trafficked. Check out the centennials and 13ers. Why are other 14ers like Sunlight Spire not included on the list? Seems very arbitrary. As others have stated, the crux of an FKT should not be this bureaucratic bulls**t and who is in bed with Carlos (or rather who he lets buy him his favorite dinner...)

https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/o ... -mountain/

Irony #1: You say we have egos, but you're the one basically saying that if you can’t do Culebra, nobody else should, and that if Culebra presents an issue for the FKT “cause”, then let’s just cut off access for everybody. That only levels the playing field for FKTers; it would screw the rest of the community. THAT seems egotistical.

Irony #2: You’re ragging on others for checking boxes on lists, yet in pursuing an FKT you are trying to check a bunch of boxes, and in finishing the Colorado 14ers and all 14ers in the lower 48, you had to check a bunch of boxes. Even the Culebra box was important for you to check.

Irony #3: Totally cool that you assume I’m a peakbagger in the way you define. I'm not. I don’t judge people who are pursuing a list, it's just not my jam, though. My goal is to hike peaks I think I'd enjoy, and Culebra was one of those. I hiked it once; I'll hopefully hike it again ... unless access is jeopardized by folks not playing by the rules. For me, it was a beautiful place I enjoyed being, so I don't appreciate that you'd want that taken away from me and others. My actual point, though, is that you're not in a position to judge the manner in which people pursue their interest; that seems like unnecessary jabbing and judgment toward the community because of something you're personally bitter about.

Let's try and appreciate that folks get out and do things that they enjoy - just like you do.

[XterraRob]

No one asked?
Is this going to involve high heels?

viewtopic.php?p=780508#p780508

[NovaDevi25]

Did you seriously willfully ignore the literal next sentence from your quote? "While it may not be as personally fulfilling, I would happily climb the next highest or comparable peaks." I read it as Erin making a point that inconsistent rules that vary year to year or person to person cause an issue with a consistent record, which is valid. The crux of an FKT is not supposed to be endless bureaucracy or using connections to get around access issues. In my opinion Culebra shouldn't be included at all in FKT records, or should be fair game to substitute with a similar peak...we make plenty of exceptions for things like Sunlight Spire and subpeaks that it's arbitrary anyway.

And there are plenty of reasons why myself and others would never want to pay CVR for access even if it cost 1 cent. I don't know why so many people are so eager to bend over backwards to pay a Texan oil tycoon who has fought against allowing locals, homesteaders, and the prevalent indigenous community to use land which they have had access to for centuries. Land that should be public in the first place. Not to mention predatory business practices, complete lack of transparency, or willing to work with the local community unless there's $$$ in it for them. Seems to me it's more selfish to support an organization like that just to get a tick for your 58.

Does having it "checked off" really add that much when you're looking at a list that includes such monsters as Little Bear, Capitol, the Bells?

To me it all comes down to did you do them all though, especially in a FKT. This is really stretching it BUT if you go for the 7 highest peaks on each continent and skip Kili but get the rest you 100% have the ability since that's by far the easiest but if you didn't climb that one you didn't get all 7.

Don't have all 7 but have 6 amazing stories and peaks. I guess for me it's not understanding the appeal of having the completed list regardless of cost.

[NovaDevi25]

I don't see why the default FKT category moving forward couldn't be "all publicly accessible 14ers." More room to blaze new trails!

That's my thought.

[madbuck]

Yes, I would prefer for Culebra to be shut down. I’ve said this for years.

https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/o ... -mountain/

The article you linked literally states the following:
“Odious, sure, but preferable, ethically, to banning hikers altogether.”

[Briere]

I don't see why the default FKT category moving forward couldn't be "all publicly accessible 14ers." More room to blaze new trails!

That's my thought.

I get that but doesn't that make it easier or harder in a given year? The more 14ers shut down the better in the case of setting a new FKT since you have simply less 14ers to do.

[BillMiddlebrook]

Yes, I would prefer for Culebra to be shut down. I’ve said this for years. Sorry if the egos of all you peakbaggers will be harmed for not being able to tick another one off your list. Boo hoo. There are plenty of other beautiful peaks out there. More beautiful. Less trafficked. Check out the centennials and 13ers. Why are other 14ers like Sunlight Spire not included on the list? Seems very arbitrary. As others have stated, the crux of an FKT should not be this bureaucratic bulls**t and who is in bed with Carlos (or rather who he lets buy him his favorite dinner...)

Yikes
Culebra is a 14er, by community definition, and whether or not it's currently accessible will change over time, as it has in the past. It's privately owned and we're stuck with that as long as it is. But it's still a 14er.
Obviously, there are other privately-owned 14ers and we have to deal with their on-and-off closures as well. They, too, are still 14ers. So, it seems to me that people going for an FKT of the 14ers simply have to deal with it by trying to get permission for a climb or waiting for a "temporary" closure to end.

I understand the challenge as it relates to those peak-bagging for speed records but suggesting Culebra be "shut down" to everyone is ridiculous. It's a beautiful place and I hope many more people get to see it.

[colingoodman]

I don't see why the default FKT category moving forward couldn't be "all publicly accessible 14ers." More room to blaze new trails!

That's my thought.

I get that but doesn't that make it easier or harder in a given year? The more 14ers shut down the better in the case of setting a new FKT since you have simply less 14ers to do.

I assume the new goal wouldn’t be dynamic, rather the same set excluding Culebra (ABC) and any others. Subsequent attempts would compare accordingly either with the private exclusive or private inclusive records.