Women’s Self-Supported 14er FKT

[jscully205]

There’s a of couple things in this world called accountability and responsibility. You took the risk and made the choice to trespass on the ranch and you got caught. You may have gotten lucky and didn’t face any legal repercussions, but now you have to deal with the relationship possibly being soured. If I were in your shoes, I would apologize and try to make amends.

Your opinion on the ethics is irrelevant; it is what it is and the reality is the ranch is privately owned and there’s a procedure to hike it.
Hell, I didn’t like that “someone privately owned a 14er” either but I still respected law, paid the price of admission and moved on with my life.

Also, other fkt’ers before you all did their homework and planned well ahead of time to get the reservation that they’d need to have to hike Culebra. My question to you is, why didn’t you think to do this with all the other logistics and “puzzles” that you like with fkt attempts?

[dwoodward13]

I 100% agree with this comment. I honestly wish Carlos would just close Culebra Peak to all hikers so that it could be an even playing field.

This one of the crazier things I've read here and thats saying something! I didn't plan ahead, so therefore I wish no one would be able to hike Culebra. Ironically, this is the most even its ever been! FKTers don't get some special consideration, they have to sign up and plan in advance like the run of the mill hiker. Forget to sign up? Can't make your date? Join the waitlist or plan for next year. Even playing field!

The purpose of this FKT is to test athletic and mental limits not to see who has the most connections.

All of the previous FKTers have had the issue of Culebra. They have planned their entire attempt around this single peak due to the reservation system that has been in place. They have wasted time waiting for the gate to open at 7am because those are the constraints of this peak.

Are you attempting to gain special permission to hike Lindsey and Decliabron too? Those peaks would require some sort of connection (like using your FKT attempt to sell the importance of gaining access). Culebra absolutely does not.

I absolutely love the logistical component of planning peak order and routes. It is truly a puzzle.

[MaryinColorado]

When I go to FKT sites, I don’t really see many strict black and white rules, but there is a strong recommendation that routes should not cross private property, mainly out of fairness considerations. One person may have access and the next may not. One person may want to avoid trespassing and the next may not. You could have a situation (seems to be the case here) where the landowner just doesn’t like someone and won’t grant access, while he may relax the rules for someone else. That’s not really fair and as others have brought up, it introduces unequal treatment based on who has better connections and that’s not what FKT is supposed to be about.

FKT rules seem to suggest that routes are supposed to be open to everyone and if they’re not, they shouldn’t be included in the competition. Given all of the access issues with 6 peaks now, it seems like the only two solutions are to either remove them or replace them with 6 similar peaks. For instance I’ve always thought Yale is essentially the same mountain as Culebra only with more elevation gain. Or replace Culebra with W Spanish or something else nearby. Seems like all of FKT current and past FKT competitors here are smart people with respect to Colorado mountains and could come up with suitable replacements / time allowances.

It seems like with respect to FKT, continuing to make competitors jump through hoops, pull strings, offer money, make personal ethical decisions about whether to trespass or not, isn’t really a viable solution. Unless all Colorado 14er FKT is paused until the access issues clear up. But that could take years.

I 100% agree with this comment. I honestly wish Carlos would just close Culebra Peak to all hikers so that it could be an even playing field. The purpose of this FKT is to test athletic and mental limits not to see who has the most connections. I absolutely love the logistical component of planning peak order and routes. It is truly a puzzle. But, as you mentioned, being stuck in the position of whether to trespass or not crosses a line and undermines what this FKT is about. Obviously, no one wants to trespass given the option but there needs to be a consensus about what constitutes a record, which is what I’m trying to assess now. While it may not be as personally fulfilling, I would happily climb the next highest or comparable peaks.

Did I read that right? Because figuring out the FKT stuff is difficult for you in relation to Culebra, you would prefer access to be revoked for everybody? You'd prefer that the rest of us not be able to enjoy such a beautiful peak because you want things to be easier for you and other FKTers?

Those of you in pursuit of records, y'all are not more special than other hikers, you're just doing something different than the rest of us. It's hard to respect an FKTer if they fail to consider the good of the 14er/peak community at large in favor of their own endeavor or their own means to an end.

Good luck figuring everything out.

[Jon Frohlich]

But, as you mentioned, being stuck in the position of whether to trespass or not crosses a line and undermines what this FKT is about. Obviously, no one wants to trespass given the option but there needs to be a consensus about what constitutes a record, which is what I’m trying to assess now.

Hold on. Am I reading this correctly that in pursuit of an FKT you're actually considering trespassing again as an option? You can't be serious.

I'd think they wouldn't be so kind about dropping the charges a second time if they catch you.

[CaptainSuburbia]

Are you attempting to gain special permission to hike Lindsey and Decliabron too? Those peaks would require some sort of connection (like using your FKT attempt to sell the importance of gaining access). Culebra absolutely does not.

I absolutely love the logistical component of planning peak order and routes. It is truly a puzzle.

Lindsey is being done discreetly, not with connections.

[JQDivide]

The FKT hasn't even started and there is already drama.

For those that have mentioned "alternative" peaks... NOPE.
Then it would be an FKT for that list of peaks... a list no one else has done. Got for it. Have fun. Be safe.

For it to be a FKT of the 14ers... it has to be the same peaks, the same list. And that has always included Culebra.
What about the other peaks that are currently private and saying no trespassing?

Privately owned peaks... well, I own my property, it's a hell of a lot smaller than a peak.
Someone just got there first and owned the mountain.
Obviously it's not a great scenario for everyone because of a lack of access. It is what it is.
The state needs to pass that bill to protect private property owners that allow access.

The 14er FKT won't change due to private property. But people might have to wait to accomplish it again.

[Dayute]

I know for a fact the surrounding ranch owners were given access keys to quell some of the conflict caused by Cielo Vista using unethical tactics to keep elk within boundaries.

Maybe slandering people on the internet is not the best way to get back in their good graces after criminally trespassing on their land. I dont know, just a thought.

[XterraRob]

If it wouldn't be at the expense of everyone's peak access to Culebra, I'd highly support you in your efforts to let the internet know about your FKT attempt and your willingness to trespass to achieve it. They'll never know you're coming.

Make sure to make arrangements for your car in the event you get picked up by the Sheriff or CSP. Also let them know you'd be willing to walk to the station so that you're still considered self-supported too.

[Wimyers]

Also let them know you'd be willing to walk to the station so that you're still considered self-supported too.

Lol

[shays_days]

But, as you mentioned, being stuck in the position of whether to trespass or not crosses a line and undermines what this FKT is about. Obviously, no one wants to trespass given the option but there needs to be a consensus about what constitutes a record, which is what I’m trying to assess now.

Hold on. Am I reading this correctly that in pursuit of an FKT you're actually considering trespassing again as an option? You can't be serious.

I'd think they wouldn't be so kind about dropping the charges a second time if they catch you.

Did you seriously willfully ignore the literal next sentence from your quote? "While it may not be as personally fulfilling, I would happily climb the next highest or comparable peaks." I read it as Erin making a point that inconsistent rules that vary year to year or person to person cause an issue with a consistent record, which is valid. The crux of an FKT is not supposed to be endless bureaucracy or using connections to get around access issues. In my opinion Culebra shouldn't be included at all in FKT records, or should be fair game to substitute with a similar peak...we make plenty of exceptions for things like Sunlight Spire and subpeaks that it's arbitrary anyway.

And there are plenty of reasons why myself and others would never want to pay CVR for access even if it cost 1 cent. I don't know why so many people are so eager to bend over backwards to pay a Texan oil tycoon who has fought against allowing locals, homesteaders, and the prevalent indigenous community to use land which they have had access to for centuries. Land that should be public in the first place. Not to mention predatory business practices, complete lack of transparency, or willing to work with the local community unless there's $$$ in it for them. Seems to me it's more selfish to support an organization like that just to get a tick for your 58.

[desertdog]

Disclaimer, I don't have a big interest in FKTs, but admire the physicality and dedication it takes. I know that my two cents is a little of topic but...

I was just on the ranch this past weekend doing the northern peaks, which were my last 13ers there, so that was probably my last trip. We had a flat and Carlos gave us a ride back to our camp. I spent a long time talking to him on the ride. I have also talked to him on other trips. As I think most agree, he's a great guy and tries to make things work for our community. I asked him about people trying to get on the ranch without permission. He expressed his frustration at trespassing and not following the rules. He shared a story that happened recently were the trespasser was caught, arrested and then accused him personally of harassing them. On other occasions people have sent him threatening emails.

I can't imagine the fees that are charged offset the costs (insurance, labor, etc.) of managing this program, let alone the hassle factor. The point is, given the closures of other peaks and changes in legal stuff, we are lucky to be given access and should treat the ranch with respect. As others have said we could easily lose access to this beautiful area. It's easy, if you don't want to pay the fee or can't get into the permit program then find something else to do.

[NovaDevi25]

But, as you mentioned, being stuck in the position of whether to trespass or not crosses a line and undermines what this FKT is about. Obviously, no one wants to trespass given the option but there needs to be a consensus about what constitutes a record, which is what I’m trying to assess now.

Hold on. Am I reading this correctly that in pursuit of an FKT you're actually considering trespassing again as an option? You can't be serious.

I'd think they wouldn't be so kind about dropping the charges a second time if they catch you.

Did you seriously willfully ignore the literal next sentence from your quote? "While it may not be as personally fulfilling, I would happily climb the next highest or comparable peaks." I read it as Erin making a point that inconsistent rules that vary year to year or person to person cause an issue with a consistent record, which is valid. The crux of an FKT is not supposed to be endless bureaucracy or using connections to get around access issues. In my opinion Culebra shouldn't be included at all in FKT records, or should be fair game to substitute with a similar peak...we make plenty of exceptions for things like Sunlight Spire and subpeaks that it's arbitrary anyway.

And there are plenty of reasons why myself and others would never want to pay CVR for access even if it cost 1 cent. I don't know why so many people are so eager to bend over backwards to pay a Texan oil tycoon who has fought against allowing locals, homesteaders, and the prevalent indigenous community to use land which they have had access to for centuries. Land that should be public in the first place. Not to mention predatory business practices, complete lack of transparency, or willing to work with the local community unless there's $$$ in it for them. Seems to me it's more selfish to support an organization like that just to get a tick for your 58.

I've never really understood the desire to get a name in a record book and so I tend to agree with this take. Culebra may be beautiful, I may want all 54, but I'm not paying an oil tycoon for something that truly feels to me like it should be for the people. That being said, Culebra is private property so... I've made peace with the fact that I wouldn't be in a record book or some such nonsense. I know what I'm willing to do and not do. That said, I sure wouldn't be trespassing on Culebra and potentially threatening the access to the peak that has been fought so hard to get to where it is now. Especially because it sounds like the staff at the ranch try their best to work this system for hikers as best they can, and I'm sure they deal with some big headaches. I'm sure they're good people, even if I disagree that this land should be allowed to be privately owned.

If you've got most or all the 14ers, I'm pretty sure you could nab Culebra with regards to skill. Does having it "checked off" really add that much when you're looking at a list that includes such monsters as Little Bear, Capitol, the Bells? Is the satisfaction that much sweeter? If anything the history of Culebra over time has really poisoned the peak, at least to me, it feels tainted because of the history of CVR and blatant money-grubbing dating back to those original land deals long ago, especially when it's always rich people demanding money for access to something they sure don't use daily in the way most average people use their property. I get the property angle but the way you use your house and property associated with that land and the way an oil barron uses a ranch in another state with significant public interest and communal good potential are not equal. And most people's property just does not have the kind of public interest and collective use potential the 14ers have and I think it's odd to treat these two examples of property of land as equivalent, especially when practices like Eminent Domain are absolutely used to shove people off property they legitimately use to its fullest in the name of communal good.

Folks do what they got to do for fulfillment, and we all have the lines we'll cross and the ones we won't. I just know I don't really get the need for checking off each of them especially when Culebra's history is so tainted by greed.