DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
Forum rules
  • This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
  • Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
  • Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
  • Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
    For more details, please see the Terms of Use you agreed to when joining the forum.
pizza-sandwich
Posts: 24
Joined: 2/23/2021
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by pizza-sandwich »

Jon Frohlich wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:21 pm
pizza-sandwich wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:34 pm i reject capitalism in all its forms. private land ownership—especially in this example—is immoral.
I take it you don't own a house or a car (or even a bike) then.

Do you do everything via the barter system?
oh man not this tired trope. private property is not the same as personal property. private property is enterprise. personal property are things i own that don’t accumulate profit.

on top of that rejecting capitalism isn’t rejecting an economy, it’s just saying that a profit driven economy in unethical. bartering has nothing to do with it.
User avatar
stoopdude
Posts: 118
Joined: 6/26/2013
14ers: 58  3 
13ers: 77
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by stoopdude »

Jon Frohlich wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:52 pm
stoopdude wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:36 pm
Jon Frohlich wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:21 pm

I take it you don't own a house or a car (or even a bike) then.

Do you do everything via the barter system?
You can oppose capitalism while still being required to live within its confines, which means having to buy stuff.
Not necessarily. You could steal to survive. Being afraid that you'd likely quickly get caught and sent to prison just means you aren't that committed to your cause.
I don’t think this is the clever retort you think it is.
User avatar
montanahiker
Posts: 275
Joined: 8/30/2015
14ers: 39 
13ers: 214
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by montanahiker »

pizza-sandwich wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:01 pm
Jon Frohlich wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:21 pm
pizza-sandwich wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:34 pm i reject capitalism in all its forms. private land ownership—especially in this example—is immoral.
I take it you don't own a house or a car (or even a bike) then.

Do you do everything via the barter system?
oh man not this tired trope. private property is not the same as personal property. private property is enterprise. personal property are things i own that don’t accumulate profit.

on top of that rejecting capitalism isn’t rejecting an economy, it’s just saying that a profit driven economy in unethical. bartering has nothing to do with it.
So other than typing words on a website, how do you reject capitalism in all its forms?
There's more to life than 14ers. There are 13ers.
pizza-sandwich
Posts: 24
Joined: 2/23/2021
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by pizza-sandwich »

montanahiker wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:05 pm
pizza-sandwich wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:01 pm
Jon Frohlich wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:21 pm

I take it you don't own a house or a car (or even a bike) then.

Do you do everything via the barter system?
oh man not this tired trope. private property is not the same as personal property. private property is enterprise. personal property are things i own that don’t accumulate profit.

on top of that rejecting capitalism isn’t rejecting an economy, it’s just saying that a profit driven economy in unethical. bartering has nothing to do with it.
So other than typing words on a website, how do you reject capitalism in all its forms?
so i see what you’re trying to do here and it’s not going to work on me. i don’t have to defend myself to you and i could turn this around and make you defend the slaughter of the buffalo, the genocide of native peoples, or the wholesale bulldozing of prairie dog colonies. but i won’t do that.

you can accept and embrace a social economy predicated on what’s profitable rather than what’s right all you want to, i won’t.

for all the ed abby quotes thrown around here, you’d think someone would have actually like listened to what he was saying.
User avatar
hellmanm
Posts: 364
Joined: 8/5/2014
14ers: 58 
13ers: 57 1
Trip Reports (8)
 

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by hellmanm »

Christ, stop it y'all. These debates never reach a resolution where one side ends up agreeing with the other. It's always just arguing until someone makes light of the situation, followed by a bunch of shitposting. Aren't most of you in your 40s? Jeez... way to hijack a thread about 14er access with your own unsupported diatribes.
User avatar
montanahiker
Posts: 275
Joined: 8/30/2015
14ers: 39 
13ers: 214
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by montanahiker »

pizza-sandwich wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:12 pm
montanahiker wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:05 pm
pizza-sandwich wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:01 pm

oh man not this tired trope. private property is not the same as personal property. private property is enterprise. personal property are things i own that don’t accumulate profit.

on top of that rejecting capitalism isn’t rejecting an economy, it’s just saying that a profit driven economy in unethical. bartering has nothing to do with it.
So other than typing words on a website, how do you reject capitalism in all its forms?
so i see what you’re trying to do here and it’s not going to work on me. i don’t have to defend myself to you and i could turn this around and make you defend the slaughter of the buffalo, the genocide of native peoples, or the wholesale bulldozing of prairie dog colonies. but i won’t do that.

you can accept and embrace a social economy predicated on what’s profitable rather than what’s right all you want to, i won’t.

for all the ed abby quotes thrown around here, you’d think someone would have actually like listened to what he was saying.
I'm just asking what you meant by "I reject capitalism in all its forms". I literally don't know what that means. If you are unable to explain it that's fine but don't lash out at me because I asked a genuine question.

I never claimed to have done any of the things you wrote so I don't know why I would defend them or why you would bring them up at all.
There's more to life than 14ers. There are 13ers.
pizza-sandwich
Posts: 24
Joined: 2/23/2021
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by pizza-sandwich »

hellmanm wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:17 pm Christ, stop it y'all. These debates never reach a resolution where one side ends up agreeing with the other. It's always just arguing until someone makes light of the situation, followed by a bunch of shitposting. Aren't most of you in your 40s? Jeez... way to hijack a thread about 14er access with your own unsupported diatribes.
i started my position and got piled on for it with asinine non sequiters.

at the end of it, this is a political discussion about public access to lands and the role of private enterprise in that access.

how could this become anything other than political?
pizza-sandwich
Posts: 24
Joined: 2/23/2021
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by pizza-sandwich »

montanahiker wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:05 pm

So other than typing words on a website, how do you reject capitalism in all its forms?
so i see what you’re trying to do here and it’s not going to work on me. i don’t have to defend myself to you and i could turn this around and make you defend the slaughter of the buffalo, the genocide of native peoples, or the wholesale bulldozing of prairie dog colonies. but i won’t do that.

you can accept and embrace a social economy predicated on what’s profitable rather than what’s right all you want to, i won’t.

for all the ed abby quotes thrown around here, you’d think someone would have actually like listened to what he was saying.
[/quote]

I'm just asking what you meant by "I reject capitalism in all its forms". I literally don't know what that means. If you are unable to explain it that's fine but don't lash out at me because I asked a genuine question.

I never claimed to have done any of the things you wrote so I don't know why I would defend them or why you would bring them up at all.
[/quote]

so you weren’t insinuating anything by saying

“Apparently pizza-sandwich posts on 14ers from a public library. Must also beg for all his/her food. Wouldn't want to be a wage slave.“

or

“So other than typing words on a website, how do you reject capitalism in all its forms?”

color me skeptical that these were genuine questions with no subtext.
User avatar
montanahiker
Posts: 275
Joined: 8/30/2015
14ers: 39 
13ers: 214
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by montanahiker »

pizza-sandwich wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:35 pm
montanahiker wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:05 pm

So other than typing words on a website, how do you reject capitalism in all its forms?
so i see what you’re trying to do here and it’s not going to work on me. i don’t have to defend myself to you and i could turn this around and make you defend the slaughter of the buffalo, the genocide of native peoples, or the wholesale bulldozing of prairie dog colonies. but i won’t do that.

you can accept and embrace a social economy predicated on what’s profitable rather than what’s right all you want to, i won’t.

for all the ed abby quotes thrown around here, you’d think someone would have actually like listened to what he was saying.
I'm just asking what you meant by "I reject capitalism in all its forms". I literally don't know what that means. If you are unable to explain it that's fine but don't lash out at me because I asked a genuine question.

I never claimed to have done any of the things you wrote so I don't know why I would defend them or why you would bring them up at all.
[/quote]

so you weren’t insinuating anything by saying

“Apparently pizza-sandwich posts on 14ers from a public library. Must also beg for all his/her food. Wouldn't want to be a wage slave.“

or

“So other than typing words on a website, how do you reject capitalism in all its forms?”

color me skeptical that these were genuine questions with no subtext.
[/quote]


I reject your skepticism in all its forms. But I guess we'll never know what you meant. Oh well, back to real life.
There's more to life than 14ers. There are 13ers.
User avatar
12ersRule
Posts: 2302
Joined: 6/18/2007
14ers: 58 
13ers: 160
Trip Reports (4)
 

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by 12ersRule »

How fun would it be to have a user named frenchfry-sandwich who was a complete capitalist, no safety nets at all, no gov't to interfere with the good ol American way of making a buck? If you french fry, when you're supposed to pizza...you're gonna have a bad time!

Sh!tposting on the dot com since 2007!

List of peaks
Strava
User avatar
headsizeburrito
Posts: 189
Joined: 8/22/2020
14ers: 31  20 
13ers: 90 4
Trip Reports (8)
 

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by headsizeburrito »

Speaking of snacks, I have a solution to the problem. How about the property owners make the land public, freeing them of any liability and visitor impact management hassles and in exchange they can have the sole right to operate a concession stand at the lake for all the summer crowds. I'm sure they'd make more money that way than waiting on a mining jackpot that will never come. :-k

Ok, back to arguing.
User avatar
AnnaG22
Posts: 825
Joined: 9/16/2013
14ers: 58  7  20 
13ers: 124 3 6
Trip Reports (6)
 

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by AnnaG22 »

hellmanm wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:17 pm Jeez... way to hijack a thread about 14er access with your own unsupported diatribes.
What else is this site for?? :-k

Anyway, pizzaman is probably a Leo and the landowners restricting access to Decalibron are probably Capricorns.
"The love of wilderness is more than a hunger for what is always beyond reach; it is also an expression of loyalty to the earth, the earth which bore us and sustains us, the only home we shall ever know, the only paradise we ever need – if only we had the eyes to see." -Ed Abbey

"I get scared sometimes—lots of times—but it's not bad. You know? I feel close to myself. When I'm out there at night, I feel close to my own body, I can feel my blood moving, my skin and my fingernails, everything, it's like I'm full of electricity and I'm glowing in the dark—I'm on fire almost—I'm burning away into nothing—but it doesn't matter because I know exactly who I am." from The Things They Carried