Thanks for the posts, Helmut and Chi Transplant. And Benners.
I'm hoping a couple more of the salty climbers on the site can chime in when they got time. I'm curious to hear from Furthermore, dsunwall, sgladbach and a few of the others.
Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty
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Re: Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty
Snowflakes, Uber Alles!
http://www.deuceIRA.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Put the Douche in your FiDeuceiary needs today!!
http://www.deuceIRA.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Put the Douche in your FiDeuceiary needs today!!
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Re: Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty
13ers are better
Lemke Climbs
The Pacific Coast to the Great Plains = My Playground
"Take risks not to escape life, but to prevent life from escaping"
"When you come to face what you fear, let the creator guide you"
The Pacific Coast to the Great Plains = My Playground
"Take risks not to escape life, but to prevent life from escaping"
"When you come to face what you fear, let the creator guide you"
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Re: Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty
Dallas is certainly #1 in difficulty all around. I'd put Jagged #2, Little Bear as #3, Capitol as #4 and maybe Sunlight #5. So even though the Centennials command the top two, three 14ers make the top 5 (all, of course, IMHO).
I didn't think Teakettle was that tough and would rank well down the list, probably near Pyramid and Thunder Pyramid (close tie on these two IMHO). Only the summit block on Teakettle is of any difficulty, and a free climb thereof is only class 5-nuthin' and has very limited exposure. We did rappel off of it, but that is of no difficulty.
Pigeon and Turret are easy technically (one short 4th class move on Pigeon), but require a pretty long trip. But so do Sunlight/Windom/Eolus. Call that a tie.
Vestal? The easiest route ain't bad really (we went up Wham, down the easier "standard" route), but again, this is a long way in. Arrow is not a Centennial by any count I've ever seen.
But then there are the two Wilsons and El Diente, then the Maroons. But Gladstone is right there w/ the Wilsons. I guess any time I think of a more difficult Centennial, I can think of a near-equivalent 14er. Feel free to ignore El Diente and N. Maroon in this argument if this pleases you.
Did I miss any of significant difficulty?
The rest? I guess the centennials require a bit more route finding in general, but with all the beta out there, still not tough to do. I basically call the two classes of mountains pretty close in overall difficulty. The two glaring exceptions are Dallas and Jagged, which I guess slightly tip the scales that way.
Just rambling.
Oh: and I agree w/ Matt: The centennials are overall somewhat more enjoyable (though our 14er gems are awesome).
I didn't think Teakettle was that tough and would rank well down the list, probably near Pyramid and Thunder Pyramid (close tie on these two IMHO). Only the summit block on Teakettle is of any difficulty, and a free climb thereof is only class 5-nuthin' and has very limited exposure. We did rappel off of it, but that is of no difficulty.
Pigeon and Turret are easy technically (one short 4th class move on Pigeon), but require a pretty long trip. But so do Sunlight/Windom/Eolus. Call that a tie.
Vestal? The easiest route ain't bad really (we went up Wham, down the easier "standard" route), but again, this is a long way in. Arrow is not a Centennial by any count I've ever seen.
But then there are the two Wilsons and El Diente, then the Maroons. But Gladstone is right there w/ the Wilsons. I guess any time I think of a more difficult Centennial, I can think of a near-equivalent 14er. Feel free to ignore El Diente and N. Maroon in this argument if this pleases you.
Did I miss any of significant difficulty?
The rest? I guess the centennials require a bit more route finding in general, but with all the beta out there, still not tough to do. I basically call the two classes of mountains pretty close in overall difficulty. The two glaring exceptions are Dallas and Jagged, which I guess slightly tip the scales that way.
Just rambling.
Oh: and I agree w/ Matt: The centennials are overall somewhat more enjoyable (though our 14er gems are awesome).
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Re: Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty
Actually a pal of mine did just that (the Centennials and 14ers), plus at the same time he finished the CO county high points AND the USA 50 state high points, all on Mt. Elbert. I thought that was a super-cool thing to do. I wonder if anyone else has done this? I suspect not.Brian Thomas wrote: How about climbing 99 of the 100 highest and then simultaneously finishing the centennials and the 14ers on a 14er summit?
Nobody does that, they are all so hung up on the magical number of 58 it seems...
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Re: Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty
I will probably finish the 14ers and the top 100 this way...either on Capitol or LB
Lemke Climbs
The Pacific Coast to the Great Plains = My Playground
"Take risks not to escape life, but to prevent life from escaping"
"When you come to face what you fear, let the creator guide you"
The Pacific Coast to the Great Plains = My Playground
"Take risks not to escape life, but to prevent life from escaping"
"When you come to face what you fear, let the creator guide you"
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Re: Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty
I recall that Aaron Ihinger finished the centennials on the Maroon Bells with a N-S-N double traverse.
Climbing at altitude is like hitting your head against a brick wall — it's great when you stop. -- Chris Darwin
I'm pretty tired. I think I'll go home now. -- Forrest Gump
I'm pretty tired. I think I'll go home now. -- Forrest Gump
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Re: Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty
As well as an interesting one.DeucesWild wrote:Okay serious topic.
I haven't finished the Top 100 yet, but I think one of the toughest ones I have left will be Culebra & Red, because shelling out $150 might hurt a little.
The most challenging peak that I'm planning to save for last, is Longs (because I intend on finishing on the Kieners route).
Jagged & Dallas I've yet to climb, so I have no comment on those other than the long approach for Jagged, as well as a good weather window for a successful trip to happen.
For me, the Bells were my hardest 14ers because of the experience I had when I did them (as a N to S traverse), due in part to my inexperience at the time.
For cent's, Wham was an hour of terrified yet exciting climbing. Only to be punctuated by more fear on the descent on the S face. The approach was certainly a challenge as well.
In effort, Pigeon & Turret was tough. We did them in winter, so busting up N Pigeon Creek was not easy with big heavy packs.
The climbing itself wasn't too terribly difficult, but we did rope up for a short section on Pigeon due to consequences of a fall.
Thunder was a challenge. 1 for 2 on that peak.
Both times had some oh s**t moments.
For some of the often considered harder 14ers, aside from the Bells, I had good experiences.
LB = snow climb with good May snow
Cap = no issues or concerns
Wilson group = all good for us
Effort wise for the Chicago Basin group was big. We did a 5 day trip in mid-May, so we had heavy packs to haul!
But the snow was good, so the climbing was "easy."
Teakettle I think is rather easy, with the exception of the finish. I've heard of people free climbing it, but I don't think I would. Consequences of a fall is pain. No doubt.
The approach and descent are sloggish on steep terrain. Some loose dinner plates to contend with too. But not all that bad.
Ice my first time was a mental challenge, again due to inexperience on that kind of mountain/terrain. Second time was a blast (Fridge couloir), due to having gained more climbing experience.
Cathedral, do it as a snow climb.
Those are my unorganized thoughts to this discussion.
Good luck Douche.
Just go for it.
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Re: Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty
DeucesWild wrote:Just because you log every climb do you think that obligates everyone else to do the same? Don't ASSume Mr. Lounger. You know what that does don't you?Summit Lounger wrote:Dude, you only claim 3 14er ascents, and are already concerned about the Centennials? You posts (259) to peak (4) ratio is way out of line. Less lurking and more climbing.
It was a reasonable question that I asked.
All I did was match the number of peak ascents you posted to the number of posts you have made. No assumptions were made. From your reply it sounds like a personal thing. If you have done more ascents, why only report a few? Why have a false peak list? It is your choice to report what you want, but you also have the obligation to cut people slack instead of setting them up when a member comments on your peak list. People read ones peak lists as fact. If you don't want to play the reporting game, maybe you should not report any ascents, then people might ask, and you can tell them or not. From your response, it tells one a lot about who you really are.
It was a reasonable question.
The Centennials are harder than the 14ers. How much harder? I think it is directly proportional to someones technical rock climbing ability. If you take a person who can climb 5.11 trad, send them up Teakettle, they would probably walk right up to the top without stopping, and call it a boulder problem, then downclimb it. They would have similar experiences on Dallas and Jagged. To someone like this the Centennials would not be that much harder than the 14ers.
If you take someone who is maxed out on 4th class, has no formal rock climbing training, and send them up Teakettle, they would probably return without reaching the summit. It would be a long 15 feet for them. They would need to practice climbing, and get a guide or someone to put up a toprope for them to reach the summit. To them, the Centennials would be a lot harder than the 14ers.
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Re: Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty
Yeah, that was totally uncalled for. He doesn't come at people with bad intentions.Iman86 wrote:+1 for SummitLounger
We are all greater artists than we realize -FWN
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Peak List
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone. -HDT
Peak List
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Re: Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty
How about taking the approach of "if it looks fun, climb it?" I wish I had adopted that concept some years ago before spending weekend after weekend slogging up Sawatch scree to get to 14k....
But to answer your question, 14ers are more crowded, better documented/maintained trails, more can be combined/traversed to limit trips, and contain no 5th class peaks. I think that sums it up fairly well, no?
But to answer your question, 14ers are more crowded, better documented/maintained trails, more can be combined/traversed to limit trips, and contain no 5th class peaks. I think that sums it up fairly well, no?
"Athletes express themselves physically, this is their art. As an athlete, exhausting oneself on the field or or on the track or on the trail or on the mountain brings calm and satisfaction. Thrashing about… our expression." - Steve Gleason
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Re: Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty
Pretty much said everything I would have said (and you have some that I have yet to do).Chicago Transplant wrote:I haven't done Jagged or RGP yet, but based on what I remember from climbing the rest of the highest 100, if I had to do a "Top 25" of difficulty out of the Highest Hundred it would go something like this. Just top of the head on this one, and it may vary for others based on route and their experience on the mountain...
I'm looking forward (and a bit nervous for) Dallas and Jagged. Not concerned with Teakettle at all.
Vestal Wham ridge was probably the single most fun thing I've done in my life.
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Re: Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty
"How about climbing 99 of the 100 highest and then simultaneously finishing the centennials and the 14ers on a 14er summit?
Nobody does that, they are all so hung up on the magical number of 58 it seems..."
I almost did that, but finished on Vestal a few days after doing Capitol. It was just the way my schedule worked out with my climbing buddies.
Having climbed the 100 highest, I would generally agree with the consensus given here on the range of harder peaks. My personal experiences were a little different on some though:
* I think Pyramid was much more difficult than Thunder Pyramid, and scratched my head once I reached the summit of Thunder Pyramid in bewilderment at its ease after reading Roach's description. There were no close calls, no unavoidable loose rock, and no close calls contrary to the Tour de Pyramid that I did.
* I thought Pigeon was very over rated. I found a way that was class 3 to the summit, and my friend's dog Io made it to the summit and back down without our help. Hard to call that class 4. We barely used our hands. That being said, the grunt up Pigeon Creek was the toughest approach of any of the 100 highest peaks by the way I did them all.
* Ice Mountain and the easy route (our descent) on Vestal seemed more devious and difficult than advertised, and so did Gladstone, and Cathedral in some sense (I had harder snow conditions and a dog with me).
* Little Bear and Capitol are over done a bit, and are not as bad as they are made out to be, provided that you have good weather and dry rock. I think that the most difficult and dangerous 14er is probably Pyramid. Little Bear is not close behind. I found the one move wonder on Mt. Wilson pretty stiff for class 4 too.
* Dallas, Teakettle, and Jagged are all very climbable, and are not much harder than the hardest 14ers. That being said, Jagged is the only peak in the 100 highest that I think is easier to descend than to ascend if you don't rappel down.
* In general, I agree that the overall technical difficulty is not much different between the centennial 13ers and the 14ers. I found the 13ers far more enjoyable and rewarding.
Have fun, be safe.
Nobody does that, they are all so hung up on the magical number of 58 it seems..."
I almost did that, but finished on Vestal a few days after doing Capitol. It was just the way my schedule worked out with my climbing buddies.
Having climbed the 100 highest, I would generally agree with the consensus given here on the range of harder peaks. My personal experiences were a little different on some though:
* I think Pyramid was much more difficult than Thunder Pyramid, and scratched my head once I reached the summit of Thunder Pyramid in bewilderment at its ease after reading Roach's description. There were no close calls, no unavoidable loose rock, and no close calls contrary to the Tour de Pyramid that I did.
* I thought Pigeon was very over rated. I found a way that was class 3 to the summit, and my friend's dog Io made it to the summit and back down without our help. Hard to call that class 4. We barely used our hands. That being said, the grunt up Pigeon Creek was the toughest approach of any of the 100 highest peaks by the way I did them all.
* Ice Mountain and the easy route (our descent) on Vestal seemed more devious and difficult than advertised, and so did Gladstone, and Cathedral in some sense (I had harder snow conditions and a dog with me).
* Little Bear and Capitol are over done a bit, and are not as bad as they are made out to be, provided that you have good weather and dry rock. I think that the most difficult and dangerous 14er is probably Pyramid. Little Bear is not close behind. I found the one move wonder on Mt. Wilson pretty stiff for class 4 too.
* Dallas, Teakettle, and Jagged are all very climbable, and are not much harder than the hardest 14ers. That being said, Jagged is the only peak in the 100 highest that I think is easier to descend than to ascend if you don't rappel down.
* In general, I agree that the overall technical difficulty is not much different between the centennial 13ers and the 14ers. I found the 13ers far more enjoyable and rewarding.
Have fun, be safe.
The Dalai Lama when asked what surprised him most about humanity:
“Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”
“Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”