Centennial 13ers v. 14ers - compare the degree of difficulty

[DeucesWild]

Okay serious topic. I know some of you think of me as a troll (I'm actually quite handsome, at least that's what people tell me. Mostly relatives but still......).

How would you compare the toughest 13er centennials to the toughest 14ers?

I would assume that Jagged, Dallas, and Teakettle are way above and beyond the 14ers. But how about the other 7 class 3 or above Centennials. Here's my guesses based on what I've read:

Thunder Pyramid - probably more dangerous than any other 14er because of looseness.
Cathedral - probably in the top 5 14ers.
Arrow - according to Roach's book it seems straightforward class 3. Albeit remote.
Pigeon - class 4, but not too long. Seems like a fun one.
Ice Mtn - the infamous Ice. In the top 5 14ers?
Meeker - did this one. Seems to me about the same as Longs.
Gladstone - seems similar to Wilson Peak, maybe slightly tougher?


What about any of the class 2+s? Any of them extremely tough, like fall-off-the-mountain steep?


Thanks in advance for your feedback. I'm trying to decide whether or not to pursue the Centennials after I get done with the 14ers, or whether to pursue my other lifelong dream of becoming a reality TV show star!

[Summit Lounger]

Dude, you only claim 3 14er ascents, and are already concerned about the Centennials? You posts (259) to peak (4) ratio is way out of line. Less lurking and more climbing.

[DeucesWild]

Dude, you only claim 3 14er ascents, and are already concerned about the Centennials? You posts (259) to peak (4) ratio is way out of line. Less lurking and more climbing.

Just because you log every climb do you think that obligates everyone else to do the same? Don't ASSume Mr. Lounger. You know what that does don't you?

It was a reasonable question that I asked.

[benners]

Interesting topic! Though I have not done them yet, I know that by their easiest routes Teakettle, Dallas, and Jagged are more difficult than the three toughest 14ers, whichever we'd define those to be. As for the 14ers vs. centennial 13ers as a whole, Roach states in his book that the two lists are more or less equal in scope and difficulty, with a slight edge given to the Centennial 13ers due to three of the easiest routes being class 5. There is no mandatory class 5 climbing to get to the summit of a 14er.

In terms of access, again the Centennials likely win out as there are several trips into the Weminuche that require 20+ mile backpacks or else a $90 train ride (Pigeon, Turret, Vestal, Jagged, and Jupiter come to mind). Arrow is not a Centennial 13er by the way.

I'd say Thunder Pyramid was harder then Pyramid, and more dangerous, and from what I've heard Hagerman is harder than Snowmass. The easiest route on Ice is class 3, and the easiest route on Vestal is class 2+. Pigeon is class 4 combined with a long approach and more vertical, making the Pigeon Group more difficult than the Eolus Group.

[lordhelmut]

Jagged and Teakettle contain moves more fun and interesting than any single move on a 14er.

Dont forget Vestal Peak. That 2+ on the backside, better known as "Vestal's a**hole", is nothing trivial and is merely a route for peak baggers more interested in quantity over quality (bagging all Vestal Group in a day). Its also insanely loose and you are likely to let loose boulders the size of Keystone Light 30-packs. Wham Ridge, while not insanely difficult via its least path of resistence, is more exposed and more commiting than just about any route in the top 100 (other than Longs), not to mention the most fun you'll arguably ever have on a mountain in Colorado.
Thunder P is more difficult than Pyramid and more dangerous.
Cathedral is not a walk up either, probably up there with Little Bear or Pyramid. Its a "snow climb specific" peak and doesn't have a ton of mountaineering interest when dry.
Pigeon is, again arguably, the most iconic peak in the state, when viewed from multiple vantage points throughout the Weminuche. Fun climb to boot, and Ruby is a gem of a basin (no pun intended).
Meeker, as you said, is Longs smaller, but still badass, cousin.
Gladstone makes for a really cool backdrop of Navajo Lake and also have some unknown mountaineering interest year round.
Ice Mtn is downright dangerous, similar to Thunder Pyramid. Coolest looking mountain in the Sawatch.
Vermillion has the Million Dollar Couloir and gives you the excuse to head to Ice Lakes Basin (if you needed an excuse at all).

Overall, I'd say the Centenniels are similar to the 14ers, cept less travelled, less defined and consistent trail system and there is a higher saturation of interesting routes. Also, the basins you get to visit are more scenic, IMO, less riff raff. Ruby, Ice Lakes, No Name, 3 Apostles and Vestal Basins are a few you'd never visit if you focused solely on 14ers.

All you need to climb 14ers is a trustworthy pair of hiking boots, a print out of the routes from 14ers.com or Roach's guide, mild levels of common sense and the ability to read and comprehend weekend forecasts. To climb all the Centenniels, a rope is highly recomended for the top 5 toughest peaks, good map reading skills on the lesser travelled ones, moderate more persistence than 14ers since its tougher to "clean out" basins (specially in the Weminuche) and ability to deal with friends reactions when you told them you climbed a 13er, and their initial reaction being "you should've climbed a 14er".

[Chicago Transplant]

I haven't done Jagged or RGP yet, but based on what I remember from climbing the rest of the highest 100, if I had to do a "Top 25" of difficulty out of the Highest Hundred it would go something like this. Just top of the head on this one, and it may vary for others based on route and their experience on the mountain...

1. Dallas - the first tech moves are tough and a little exposed, then loose class 4 in the chimney above is a little scary. Some class 3 and 4 before the block makes it the hardest.
2. Teakettle - more exposed than Dallas, hardest moves are at the top, but its more solid. Mostly class 2 to the block, but the class 2 is loose, especially the dinner plates from YBB to Coffeepot.
3. Jagged (I haven't climbed it yet, but I imagine it will stay in this slot)
4. Pigeon - remote, lots of route finding on the upper reaches. The class 4 is not too bad, but its harder than the class 4 on any 14er.
5. Sunlight - remote, some route finding, one really tough move at the top, probably the hardest 14er by single move.
6. Wilson, Mt - loose and exposed ridge, short class 4 at the end can actually be avoided left, you can keep this class 3.
7. Capitol - the knife edge is exposed but not bad, the face climbing beyond is the actual class 4 part of the route, its loose but not that exposed.
8. Gladstone - The ridge was complex and exposed, harder than Wilson Peak, but not as bad as Mt Wilson
9. Little Bear - More dangerous than hard, but the loose rock in the hourglass is really tedious and requires more care than a lot of others
10. Thunder Pyramid - Not that hard with snow, but really loose without, a virtual tie with Pyramid
10. Pyramid - I thought it could be kept at class 3, especially on the descent, but from below its hard to find the easiest route. Not as loose as Thunder Pyramid, but a little more scrambling. Hard to call which one is really harder than the other in my opinion.
12. Maroon - Longer day than Pyramid, loose, but less scrambling
13. Ice - We did the Fridge, tried to descend the standard route but ice and snow forced to face in down climb a nasty icy gully. This peak might crack the top 10 if it was dry, or might not. My experience was different because of the conditions, but because of the conditions it would be a harder individual experience.
14. Crestone Needle - The rock is so solid that I don't think its as hard as a lot of other peaks, but it does have a lot of sustained scrambling
15. Vestal - The standard route is loose and I thought a little hard to follow the easiest route, Its not that technically difficult, but its tedious. The standard route should be Wham Ridge, which would put this peak in the top 4, and maybe even #1.
16. Wilson Peak - We did a snow route, not the normal ridge, so it may be higher on others lists. We didn't have loose rock or class 3 to really deal with, personally my experience on it wouldn't out it in the top 25, but the dry ridge surely would be.
17. Eolus - Catwalk is not that bad, wider than expected. The 3rd class after it is similar to Wetterhorn but looser and more remote
18. Hagerman - The class 3 ridge we did was better than the 2+ descent which was really loose.
19. Snowmass - Did the snow route on the east, S ridge is probably harder. The snow wasn't bad, the ridge had some exposed scrambling
20. Wetterhorn - The 3rd class isn't that bad, fairly solid and not that exposed
21. Crestone Peak - More Class 2+ than 3 in the gully, some class 3 on the ridge. Steeper and looser than Kit Carson
22. Kit Carson - Pretty good rock on the class 3, avenue is pretty wide, so while it may have more class 3 than Crestone Peak, I thought it was easier than it.
23. Longs - Route is very well marked, class 3 isn't that hard but a little exposure on Narrows
24. Meeker - Similar to Longs, but less class 3 so I think its easier
25. Cathedral - More on par with Castle than the other Elk Range peaks, but you should climb it with snow in the gully as I have heard its loose otherwise. Class 2+ on the ridge, I don't think it really is class 3.


Others Receiving Votes: Castle, Sneffels, Vermilion, Challenger Pt, Ellingwood Pt. After that they are all basically "walk ups".

(Note: I don't count El Diente and North Maroon in the highest 100 as they are not ranked.)

Arrow: Long approach, the ramp is fun and not too hard, but heard it can be bad if its wet. The very top is where the real class 3 is, but its not that bad, probably about = difficulty to Wetterhorn. Technical its ranked 104, so not on the highest 100 list.

Generally I think the Centennials list is harder based on a couple of criteria - the hardest peaks are harder than the 14ers, the loosest peaks are looser than the 14ers and the routes are less defined than the 14ers. The looseness is misleading on the danger factor though. The Centennials are not as "clean" and have higher risk of you falling by grabbing something loose, but at the same time the lower popularity means you are less likely to have someone above you kicking crap down on you. If you travel in small parties and use snow routes, the loose rock danger can be mitigated.

[Brian Thomas]

I'm trying to decide whether or not to pursue the Centennials after I get done with the 14ers

Yo Deuce! How about climbing 99 of the 100 highest and then simultaneously finishing the centennials and the 14ers on a 14er summit?

Nobody does that, they are all so hung up on the magical number of 58 it seems...

[SurfNTurf]

I'm trying to decide whether or not to pursue the Centennials after I get done with the 14ers

Yo Deuce! How about climbing 99 of the 100 highest and then simultaneously finishing the centennials and the 14ers on a 14er summit?

Nobody does that, they are all so hung up on the magical number of 58 it seems...

I thought your list was 57?

[Chicago Transplant]

I'm trying to decide whether or not to pursue the Centennials after I get done with the 14ers

Yo Deuce! How about climbing 99 of the 100 highest and then simultaneously finishing the centennials and the 14ers on a 14er summit?

Nobody does that, they are all so hung up on the magical number of 58 it seems...

I thought your list was 57?

If your main goal is the Highest 100 its 53 :D

[SuperPolok]

I'm trying to decide whether or not to pursue the Centennials after I get done with the 14ers

Yo Deuce! How about climbing 99 of the 100 highest and then simultaneously finishing the centennials and the 14ers on a 14er summit?

Nobody does that, they are all so hung up on the magical number of 58 it seems...

I finsihed the highest 100 and the 14ers on Pikes Peak a few years back. I just kept putting off Pikes Peak as it didn't hold much interest to me and by the time I was down to my last 15 or so I figured Pikes Peak was the perfect finisher as my family could join me. I had my dad, sister, cousin, and girlfriend all with me as I finished which made it a memorable experience.

[Brian Thomas]

13ers are better

Yes they are, because there's more of them!

I will probably finish the 14ers and the top 100 this way

That's my plan, on a specific date in 2016...

[lordhelmut]

This thread had potential, but has metamorphisized into a mindless argument over ranked, unranked peaks.

Nice work 14ers.com