Women's 14er FKT Claim

[Sixtyeights]

Woahhh just logged onto this toxic site. First off, I am being fully transparent about what I did. I am not trying to draw any undue attention to culebra. I had the unique opportunity to be the first woman to go after a self-supported effort and set a precedent. I made a very intentional decision not to do Culebra, even though I was presented with the gate codes. If I trespass, y’all are unhappy. If I don’t trespass, y’all are unhappy. I was also informed that Carlos was checking the back of cars during my effort to make sure I was not in them. Honestly pretty ridiculous. As I’ve said many times before, the crux of an FKT should not be about who gets access. I wanted to go after this record anyways and that is what I did. I plan on explaining my thoughts on Culebra once I get the chance to rest and recover. And I will be very transparent with the FKT organization, which is the only entity that matters NOT the 14ers.com audience.

Toxic community!? On Strava, you spat in the face of everyone who isn’t an over privileged, able bodied 20-something, because they are in “your way.” How arrogant to act like the mountains belong to you.

On instagram, you lied and blocked everyone who asked you to clarify your record attempt.

On this website, you’ve insulted, name called, and belittled nearly everyone here.

You’ve got to be one of the most toxic people in Colorados outdoor community. And that’s really saying something, as we have some real choice folks in our ranks.

Hopefully in the future you’ll be motivated by kindness as much as you’re currently motivated by peak bagging.

[mtnhigh358]

I still find her statement somewhat confusing. I have little knowledge of FKT rules, so maybe someone can clarify. Her statement seems to indicate that she was intending to establish a precedent for the female self-supported 14ers record. The self-supported 14ers is already an established route that has a male record, but no female record. Wouldn’t it be expected that the female record would follow the same precedent that was already established by the male record? She isn’t the first “woman to go after self-supported”, per her statement. She is the first person (male or female) to go after self-supported ABC. Erin’s record would be its own new ‘All but Culebra’ category (the category which she has now established a precedent for), but still leaves an opening for the female 14ers self-supported category if someone were to pursue it? I guess it also opens up the male ABC category. I find this somewhat strange since Culebra is not the only peak with access issues. Will someone do an ABL (all but Lindsey), or an ABD (all but Decalibron), or even an ABCDL (all but Culebra, Decalibron, and Lindsey)? I guess all FKT routes are somewhat arbitrary. This is definitely splitting hairs, but clearly the wording is very important to some people. I wonder if we will see more 14er FKT subcategories as a result of this new precedent.

These sorts of feats are beyond anything I will ever achieve, so I can only watch in awe. Erin’s endurance and speed are remarkable, and her record will be very difficult to beat.

I like ABE “all but the elks!” (Because they are scary!!)

[bdloftin77]

I still find her statement somewhat confusing. I have little knowledge of FKT rules, so maybe someone can clarify. Her statement seems to indicate that she was intending to establish a precedent for the female self-supported 14ers record. The self-supported 14ers is already an established route that has a male record, but no female record. Wouldn’t it be expected that the female record would follow the same precedent that was already established by the male record? She isn’t the first “woman to go after self-supported”, per her statement. She is the first person (male or female) to go after self-supported ABC. Erin’s record would be its own new ‘All but Culebra’ category (the category which she has now established a precedent for), but still leaves an opening for the female 14ers self-supported category if someone were to pursue it? I guess it also opens up the male ABC category. I find this somewhat strange since Culebra is not the only peak with access issues. Will someone do an ABL (all but Lindsey), or an ABD (all but Decalibron), or even an ABCDL (all but Culebra, Decalibron, and Lindsey)? I guess all FKT routes are somewhat arbitrary. This is definitely splitting hairs, but clearly the wording is very important to some people. I wonder if we will see more 14er FKT subcategories as a result of this new precedent.

These sorts of feats are beyond anything I will ever achieve, so I can only watch in awe. Erin’s endurance and speed are remarkable, and her record will be very difficult to beat.

Though Culebra is indisputably a 14er (4th most prominent peak in all of Colorado, in fact), choosing to go for an ABC attempt could save you $150 as well as likely hiking in much, much nicer weather than otherwise.

For the other privately owned peaks, one could either quickly trespass without worry of security repercussions, or attempt to gain individual permission requiring neither a fee nor a specified climbing date (not sure about Bross, but I believe for the others individual permission has been granted). Culebra is a big hurdle even if one does gain permission.

[zootloopz]

I still find her statement somewhat confusing. I have little knowledge of FKT rules, so maybe someone can clarify. Her statement seems to indicate that she was intending to establish a precedent for the female self-supported 14ers record. The self-supported 14ers is already an established route that has a male record, but no female record. Wouldn’t it be expected that the female record would follow the same precedent that was already established by the male record? She isn’t the first “woman to go after self-supported”, per her statement. She is the first person (male or female) to go after self-supported ABC. Erin’s record would be its own new ‘All but Culebra’ category (the category which she has now established a precedent for), but still leaves an opening for the female 14ers self-supported category if someone were to pursue it? I guess it also opens up the male ABC category. I find this somewhat strange since Culebra is not the only peak with access issues. Will someone do an ABL (all but Lindsey), or an ABD (all but Decalibron), or even an ABCDL (all but Culebra, Decalibron, and Lindsey)? I guess all FKT routes are somewhat arbitrary. This is definitely splitting hairs, but clearly the wording is very important to some people. I wonder if we will see more 14er FKT subcategories as a result of this new precedent.

These sorts of feats are beyond anything I will ever achieve, so I can only watch in awe. Erin’s endurance and speed are remarkable, and her record will be very difficult to beat.

Yeah I would assume that Dan's self-supported record set the new precedent here for both genders with 58 total 14ers including Culebra, and that there wouldn't be a separate precedent for a self-supported women's record.

Are there any other FKT's where there are separate precedents in what needs to be accomplished for male vs female aside from the total time?

I believe Erin mentioning breaking Danelle Ballengee's record time is perfectly acceptable given that Erin completed 57 peaks vs Danelle's 55, but to compare her record to Dan's seems to be incongruent given that she didn't meet Dan's standard.

As an aside, an ABC designation seems pretty cool to have on the FKT site, especially for folks who might want to attempt a record after July when Culebra is closed. Decalibron shouldn't be an issue anymore with the new waiver system thankfully. Lindsey is another discussion altogether, but seems to be accepted by the FKT website given Chris Fisher's winter record.

There's also the potential discussion of adding the next highest 13er on the list when a 14er is legally closed, which was the potential solution for Andrew Hamilton when setting the Centennials FKT:
https://fastestknowntime.com/fkt/andrew ... 2021-07-19

[mtnhigh358]

I still find her statement somewhat confusing. I have little knowledge of FKT rules, so maybe someone can clarify. Her statement seems to indicate that she was intending to establish a precedent for the female self-supported 14ers record. The self-supported 14ers is already an established route that has a male record, but no female record. Wouldn’t it be expected that the female record would follow the same precedent that was already established by the male record? She isn’t the first “woman to go after self-supported”, per her statement. She is the first person (male or female) to go after self-supported ABC. Erin’s record would be its own new ‘All but Culebra’ category (the category which she has now established a precedent for), but still leaves an opening for the female 14ers self-supported category if someone were to pursue it? I guess it also opens up the male ABC category. I find this somewhat strange since Culebra is not the only peak with access issues. Will someone do an ABL (all but Lindsey), or an ABD (all but Decalibron), or even an ABCDL (all but Culebra, Decalibron, and Lindsey)? I guess all FKT routes are somewhat arbitrary. This is definitely splitting hairs, but clearly the wording is very important to some people. I wonder if we will see more 14er FKT subcategories as a result of this new precedent.

These sorts of feats are beyond anything I will ever achieve, so I can only watch in awe. Erin’s endurance and speed are remarkable, and her record will be very difficult to beat.

I believe Erin mentioning breaking Danelle Ballengee's record time is perfectly acceptable given that Erin completed 57 peaks vs Danelle's 55,

No this is not an accurate claim

argument:

Cameron: ~ 0 minutes
Conundrum: ~30 minutes
North Eolus: ~10 minutes

Culebra: 1/2 a day at least (including the drive time)

Not to mention back in the day, those three peaks were not commonly done 55 was the norm. These three peaks are insignificant where Culebra is extremely important in the record as it affects logistics and timing. Danelle did Culebra.

I have strong doubts that this will show up as an official record on the FKT site.

[montanahiker]

I still find her statement somewhat confusing. I have little knowledge of FKT rules, so maybe someone can clarify. Her statement seems to indicate that she was intending to establish a precedent for the female self-supported 14ers record. The self-supported 14ers is already an established route that has a male record, but no female record. Wouldn’t it be expected that the female record would follow the same precedent that was already established by the male record? She isn’t the first “woman to go after self-supported”, per her statement. She is the first person (male or female) to go after self-supported ABC. Erin’s record would be its own new ‘All but Culebra’ category (the category which she has now established a precedent for), but still leaves an opening for the female 14ers self-supported category if someone were to pursue it? I guess it also opens up the male ABC category. I find this somewhat strange since Culebra is not the only peak with access issues. Will someone do an ABL (all but Lindsey), or an ABD (all but Decalibron), or even an ABCDL (all but Culebra, Decalibron, and Lindsey)? I guess all FKT routes are somewhat arbitrary. This is definitely splitting hairs, but clearly the wording is very important to some people. I wonder if we will see more 14er FKT subcategories as a result of this new precedent.

These sorts of feats are beyond anything I will ever achieve, so I can only watch in awe. Erin’s endurance and speed are remarkable, and her record will be very difficult to beat.

I took her statement to mean she wants to establish a precedent of excluding Culebra from FKTs, possibly as a way to delegitimize the peak since it is private and requires a fee (and probably because of her history there). As others have mentioned, the other "private" 14ers aren't really in the same category because they are both free and generally acceptable to "poach", regardless of what some sticklers on the site profess.

I don't know a lot about the FKT system but from what I saw years ago it does seem like you can more or less make up your own FKT as long as you don't misrepresent what you did. Since she's owning her FKT as the Self Supported ABC 14ers, I think it's great and would look forward to others attempting to unseat her. I still think the full 14ers records are more impressive by nature of being the complete list but as long as you're honest about what you are accomplishing it doesn't matter what you pursue.

[JQDivide]

IDK what "Dr. Jon" is up to these days, but he's been targeted more than anyone on this site for egotistical faux pas.
Sure, most people posting are men, but the vast majority of people who attract widespread attack have been men, too.
Maybe this Erin is also the first woman to deserve such derision?

There have been two women and two men that have misrepresented their achievements, that I'm aware of that have been discussed in the forums here.

And Erin's explanation seems like a lot of BS and carefully chosen words that come a little late.
And won't that disappear soon?

[Bill G]

I encourage you to actually get an understanding of FKT. https://fastestknowntime.com
They track times of all kinds of accomplishments around the globe. It's not just one or two records in CO. More prevalent are CT times than 14er times. There are multiple records for the Colorado 14ers. But, CO 14ers are not high on their list. Erin already holds 3 14er records in the female division. Andrew Hamilton holds 13 in the men's category. ABC has always been a thing in CO. It's been a PIA since before you were born. Culebra is quirky. Both because of when and if you can climb together with the check-in/check-out requirement. From the research I've done since I became aware of Erin, I have utmost respect for her as a gifted athlete. Never met her, but impressed with her accomplishments at such a young age. If her postings rub you the wrong way, get over it. She'll blow past you on the mountain. BTW: I expect FKT to recognize Erin's latest accomplishment.

[mtnhigh358]

I encourage you to actually get an understanding of FKT. https://fastestknowntime.com
They track times of all kinds of accomplishments around the globe. It's not just one or two records in CO. More prevalent are CT times than 14er times. There are multiple records for the Colorado 14ers. But, CO 14ers are not high on their list. Erin already holds 3 14er records in the female division. Andrew Hamilton holds 13 in the men's category. ABC has always been a thing in CO. It's been a PIA since before you were born. Culebra is quirky. Both because of when and if you can climb together with the check-in/check-out requirement. From the research I've done since I became aware of Erin, I have utmost respect for her as a gifted athlete. Never met her, but impressed with her accomplishments at such a young age. If her postings rub you the wrong way, get over it. She'll blow past you on the mountain. BTW: I expect FKT to recognize Erin's latest accomplishment.

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[XterraRob]

I encourage you to actually get an understanding of FKT. https://fastestknowntime.com
They track times of all kinds of accomplishments around the globe. It's not just one or two records in CO. More prevalent are CT times than 14er times. There are multiple records for the Colorado 14ers. But, CO 14ers are not high on their list. Erin already holds 3 14er records in the female division. Andrew Hamilton holds 13 in the men's category. ABC has always been a thing in CO. It's been a PIA since before you were born. Culebra is quirky. Both because of when and if you can climb together with the check-in/check-out requirement. From the research I've done since I became aware of Erin, I have utmost respect for her as a gifted athlete. Never met her, but impressed with her accomplishments at such a young age. If her postings rub you the wrong way, get over it. She'll blow past you on the mountain. BTW: I expect FKT to recognize Erin's latest accomplishment.

She obviously wasn't fast enough if she managed to get caught trespassing on Culebra.

[hellmanm]

From the research I've done since I became aware of Erin, I have utmost respect for her as a gifted athlete. Never met her, but impressed with her accomplishments at such a young age. If her postings rub you the wrong way, get over it. She'll blow past you on the mountain. BTW: I expect FKT to recognize Erin's latest accomplishment.

And the award for "white knight hoping someone has an OF to which they can subscribe" goes to... ^

Anyway, this FKT nonsense is just the latest example of people who want to feel special in their slice of life. As hikers/climbers, we all have this to some degree. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, either. What makes me not a fan of this particular attempt is the entitlement and defensiveness. We all hate paying $150 for Culebra, but most of us don't handle it like she has. Even for the ones who hike it illegally, they don't act like entitled jerks when caught (or misrepresent their accomplishments online for external validation). That's the difference here.

And, unlike some of the other cases, there isn't a fact-finding issue here. At least in some of the other cases (e.g. FlyingFish and WildWanderer), it's still not clear that they were lying. In this FKT case, though, there isn't any ambiguity over which events took place.

[MaryinColorado]

I encourage you to actually get an understanding of FKT. https://fastestknowntime.com
They track times of all kinds of accomplishments around the globe. It's not just one or two records in CO. More prevalent are CT times than 14er times. There are multiple records for the Colorado 14ers. But, CO 14ers are not high on their list. Erin already holds 3 14er records in the female division. Andrew Hamilton holds 13 in the men's category. ABC has always been a thing in CO. It's been a PIA since before you were born. Culebra is quirky. Both because of when and if you can climb together with the check-in/check-out requirement. From the research I've done since I became aware of Erin, I have utmost respect for her as a gifted athlete. Never met her, but impressed with her accomplishments at such a young age. If her postings rub you the wrong way, get over it. She'll blow past you on the mountain. BTW: I expect FKT to recognize Erin's latest accomplishment.

Culebra may be "quirky", but it is a legal peak, and access is allowed. All the Erin stuff aside, I wonder what this means in the world of 14er FKTs. Pick and Choose FKT based on ease of logistics rather than legit matters of legality? I assume this becomes a bigger conversation if anymore 14ers move to a reservation or permit system.