Climbing Harness Question

[Wish I lived in CO]

I have never done any roped climbing other than on a few indoor rock walls and the like. Total novice to roped climbing and I know many will roll their eyes, but I have a fundamental question that I think is worth asking.

Right now I'm sheathing a garage and the roof pitch is 9/12. Can just walk on it but very easy to slip. Thus before I started I borrowed a neighbor's climbing harness for safety. Makes the work so much better and safer.

However in my years working occasionally I need to go up in a man-lift or be tied off in some fashion. The safety harness is setup such that the lanyard connects to the middle of the back. This, according to safety classes I've been to, is so that in the event of a fall a persons weight when stopped by the lanyard will act such that a persons limbs, back etc. will bend in a natural way - curl up if you will. Also the lanyard has a shock absorbing section that deforms / lengthens to help with the shock of a 6 or so foot fall depending on the lanyard length. In the industrial environment, safety should be and is normally taken pretty seriously.

Back to the climbing harness and the garage. The climbing harness I borrowed (and I believe most or all of them) attach at the hips with the rope in front of you. Thus if you fall when the rope catches your back will bend backward - not a pleasant thing to think about. Next the distance you fall before being caught can vary - obviously up to the user. For a belay this is very small, but for top leading could be quite a ways. Finally I suppose the rope is somewhat stretchy, but not sure if that compares to a shock absorbing safety lanyard.

So my question by now is obvious. Why the fundamental differences between the two systems? For climbing I can see the obvious usefulness of having the rope in front of you, but it seems that a roped system should give more attention to preventing injury in a fall, rather than just surviving the fall. Opinions / answers ???? Just too impractical? Too bulky / heavy? Tradition? What about a harness that would connect to the whole torso with the rope connecting at the chest (happy medium of both) ?

[Wish I lived in CO]

Anyone ever fall when roped up? What was your experience and did your roped setup work as you thought / hoped?

[justiner]

Finally I suppose the rope is somewhat stretchy, but not sure if that compares to a shock absorbing safety lanyard.

Oh, that's one way of saying it. Ropes used in climbing on lead are dynamic, so during a fall, they'll absorb almost all of the energy of the fall as it stretches, before the climber is stopped. If you have a competent belayer, the fall will actually be very pleasant.

I don't think attaching a rope to the back of the harness would be a good idea, as it would cause a climber to flip when they came off, as the rope will be below the climber, and between their feet. The only time I've seen a harness like this is on speed climbing comps, where the competitor is on top rope.

[spiderman]

Harness failure must be extremely rare if you put it on correctly, and don't use a tattered old one. They are designed to hold ~4000 lbs. Almost everything else in the system starts failing at that point. It is far more likely to have problems with anchors or the belayer. I have never seen anyone hurt at the BRC gym from harness failure despite hundreds of falls each day. There was one person, though, who broke his back when his inexperienced belayer had too much slack in the line, gave even more slack when the trad climber was trying to clip into an anchor 30' off the ground, and didn't hold the tail of the rope properly when the climber lost grip on the holds. Human error is far more likely than equipment failure. Other accidents that I have heard of at the BRC include speed climbers who forgot to clip their harness into the auto-belay rope. Once again purely human error.

For industrial and commercial business applications, I can understand the need for the uber harnesses. One fatal accident could permanently shut down an entire company, although roofing must have some exception since it is one of the most dangerous jobs. I am willing and allowed to take far more risks in my personal life than I am ever allowed to do at work as a chemist. Mountaineering would never be permitted if a workplace safety committee reviewed it.

[justiner]

I would also be very careful of using a climbing harness for construction, as it could be exposed to nasty things that could cause damage to the harness itself. I would never borrow out my harness for something like that. Same with a climbing rope - once spring comes around, the, "Subaru stuck in the road headed towards the summer TH of Grays" posts pop up. Sometimes you see a photo of trying to get the car out by attaching a climbing rope between cars. Bad news for the rope Retired gear, I guess it's another story.

ALTHOUGH,

[CO Native]

A climbers anchor point is in front of him/her. If the attachment point was in the rear they would be forced to whip around in a fall and be facing away from the rock. When falling in a rock climbing situation you want to be able to keep your feet and hands in front of you as you often will fall against the rock. Rock climbers expect falls and know how to fall, a construction harness is meant for accidents.

[Flyingfish]

I worked on a high ropes course for a few summers and had to use a Yates device which is probably similar to what you are using and they just attach at the front of a harness. If you are really worried about your back you can use a chest harness too.

[Wish I lived in CO]

I worked on a high ropes course for a few summers and had to use a Yates device which is probably similar to what you are using and they just attach at the front of a harness. If you are really worried about your back you can use a chest harness too.

Oh, just more curious of the reasons for the differences than anything. While on the roof I try to take up the slack as much as I can to minimize the amount of fall if it were to happen. Of course not falling or slipping is the main strategy. The biggest problem is not tripping on the excess rope that always wants to dangle near my feet. The OSB is fairly grippy otherwise.

[Flyingfish]

Oh, just more curious of the reasons for the differences than anything.

Some harnesses actually have a loop on the back of them that are rated for a fall however those are generally big wall or specialty harnesses. Those loops are usually for a stationary tether or some fun rappelling . For climbing though the normal practice is the front tie in because the front loops are stronger and climbing and falling create more force.

[ORION]

I bought a chest harness for my kids (it attaches to a normal harness), but because climbing ropes have so much give, I've never felt the need to use it.

I have a 3 story house, and I always use my old climbing harness and climbing rope when I'm painting, working on the roof, etc. Standing on the top of an extension ladder while fixing a gutter (without protection) is a good way to break your neck. I tie off to a couple hundred pounds of weights through an upstairs window. Even for this kind of work, a back loop is just too impractical.

[polar]

I bought a chest harness for my kids (it attaches to a normal harness),

It's recommended for kids (like little ones, not teenagers) to use a full body harness because they have a higher center of gravity than adults (I'm amazed how often my 2-year-old just fall over while walking). In an event of a big fall, they are much more likely to invert than adults if they're only using a waist harness. Of course, if your kids only toprope and you keep them pretty tight, you probably won't have this issue.

[polar]

Anyone ever fall when roped up? What was your experience and did your roped setup work as you thought / hoped?

Oh yeah, I fall off more routes than I've been able to get up. And as part of my mental training, when I'm climbing in the gym, I almost never clip the anchor, I just jump off from the top (with the last bolt clipped of course). I've probably taken hundreds of falls by now. So have thousands of climbers around the world. If the harness/rope system we currently have don't work, all of us would've been dying like flies.

Like already mentioned, climbing rope acts as the shock absorbing lanyard, and it is always clipped to fixed anchor points (i.e. the anchor point does not slide around). When everything is used properly, the distance you fall in climbing does not matter anymore (as long as you don't impact anything). The safety system will absorb all of the energy in a fall, be it 6 feet or 60 feet.

Also, when properly worn, a climbing harness is pretty close to our center of gravity. This is important, because climbers don't always fall straight down, we may fall sideways, we may take pendulum falls, etc. Having an attachment point too high (at chest level) can set our body rotating, so your legs may actually strike the rock much harder and creating injuries.

So in reality, you got it backwards: a climbing harness is designed with injury prevention in mind, while an industrial harness is designed to make sure someone survives a fall. If you go to a climbing gym, you'll get to witness climbers fall off routes left and right. Imagine what would happen if industrial workers did the same.