ft per hour

[ezabielski]

But do you really need to go at such a pace, if you're not trying to outrun bad weather?

Yes, it's rather fun. That's all there is to it.

[painless4u2]

But do you really need to go at such a pace, if you're not trying to outrun bad weather?

No. Now, I get why some feel the competition (against others' abilities or their own personal limitations) to rush up a mountain. Or cycle as fast as they can. Whatever. Really, though the physical abilities of some to do this is most impressive, what impresses me most is savoring every moment in the mountains: the smells, sights, little details along the path. Things that are difficult to notice when blazing up a trail. Maybe it's just an excuse for my lumbering pace, but you know what? I think it a better way.

"It takes days of practice to learn the art of sauntering. Commonly we stride through the out-of-doors too swiftly to see more than the most obvious and prominent things.
For observing nature, the best pace is a snail’s pace."
- Edwin Way Teale, Circle of the Seasons

[Trotter]

People who are fast spend less time on the mountain, which enables them to go lighter and thus even faster. They use their speed as a safety net. People who are slower (like me) have to carry a lot more crap to be safe, and this slows us down even more. So when someone says they climb 3k/hr I automatically assume that is trail running, light and fast style, and probably not for more than a few hours. If someone can climb that fast carrying a full load of gear, on anything but class 1/easy class 2, I would be impressed.

I am impressed regardless

There is a limit to that. I've seen many trail runners wearing shorts and t shirt, and with only a water bottle, sure that works IF everything goes perfect. But one tumble and a broken leg when you don't have cell phone service, could mean death by hypothermia later that night if nobody comes upon you.

[ezabielski]

People who are fast spend less time on the mountain, which enables them to go lighter and thus even faster. They use their speed as a safety net. People who are slower (like me) have to carry a lot more crap to be safe, and this slows us down even more. So when someone says they climb 3k/hr I automatically assume that is trail running, light and fast style, and probably not for more than a few hours. If someone can climb that fast carrying a full load of gear, on anything but class 1/easy class 2, I would be impressed.

I am impressed regardless

There is a limit to that. I've seen many trail runners wearing shorts and t shirt, and with only a water bottle, sure that works IF everything goes perfect. But one tumble and a broken leg when you don't have cell phone service, could mean death by hypothermia later that night if nobody comes upon you.

I don't know why people are always on trial (on the internet) for what they carry or don't carry. It's just an acceptable level of risk thing. For some people, class 3 and above is too risky. For some people, climbing ANY mountain is an unacceptable level of risk. And then people are doing 100+ 13ers/14ers per year that are in their back yard. At all ends of the spectrum, people carry what they want and what they think they need.

[madbuck]

what impresses me most is savoring every moment in the mountains: the smells, sights, little details along the path. Things that are difficult to notice when blazing up a trail.

Oh, there are certainly plenty of overly-competitive folks perhaps not engaged in their surroundings...
and there are college t-shirts and iPhones (R) sauntering up hills as well.

what impresses me most is savoring every moment in the mountains: the smells, sights, little details along the path. Things that are difficult to notice when blazing up a trail. ....I think it a better way.

And I've certainly heard the righteous "Tsssk" of the ambler.
A "better" way??? Why the competition? I've amused myself with the mental image of a sedentary, meditating monk (for example) judging people for moving *at all*

Moving quickly at your one's limits can be an absolutely beautiful way to engage in natural surroundings: to be dialed in and focused on rock and root, imprinted on your feet, at speed; catching glimpses of scurrying (or disinterested) fauna that otherwise would have been missed; feeling temperature change on your skin compressed in time; intense bursts of wildflower scents. To feel more like an animal, instead of a separated visitor.
Assuredly, running on a trail does not mean one is not savoring it. Far from it! One person might pursue the same trail dozens of times and develop an intimate local, seasonal familiarity.

And if I didn't need convincing already, then watching my toddler is enough: whether he sits in the dirt and picks up rocks, or decides to run/stumble excitedly for short bursts down the trail -- I'm at a loss to decide which way is "savoring" it more!

[madbuck]

IMHO, ascent rate necessarily needs to be contextualized by the specific trail and conditions to have any meaning;
or, for normalization, it should be something that lasted > 60 mins. (Admittedly, hard to maximize in most naturally-available conditions)

For the latter, it reminds me of people's blogs/race/run reports, when instantaneous pace is (insufferably) mentioned. People will say something like, "we were hammering in the 5's" (e.g.) which means someone looked at their GPS watch and saw 5:59, briefly, when going down a section of steep downhill, yet not running an actual single mile at the reported pace.

For the former to generalize more than just a specific trail, I guess you can imagine things like the Sawatch, being similar enough to group together where you could usefully use personal statistics as a rough comparison for other peaks.
Otherwise it's useful (and perhaps borrowed from) skiing...either skinning up something once, or doing multiple laps at a consistent pace and averaging, for whatever purpose (perhaps matching partners or other comparative purposes)

[XrunclimbskiX]

Madbuck is speaking my language. Running on the Barr trail, there is a spot just above the rock tunnel where the temperature drops suddenly. If I wasn't running and hit it gradually, I would never get the same feeling. The feeling of transition between foothills and mountains coming at you suddenly saying "wake up! You are running in the mountains." And I am that guy at 12K feet with shorts and a water bottle and nothing else. But I am out early, with great knowledge of the weather. And to the person worried about my safety about breaking a leg, never and I mean never have I not seen someone while trail running. It's a measured risk, like commuting to work everyday in the car.

[Ed_Groves]

I found this thread while doing some searching related to the "Logan Cooper" thread, and I thought it might be worth reviving. As an older, slower, hiker and climber from the flatlands who just started chasing the 58 five years ago, I was quite impressed and intrigued by some of the averages mentioned in this thread. This piqued my curiosity as to what are normal speeds and what are extraordinary speeds under some of the following conditions:

- Climbing while making a trench in snow
- Climbing in waste deep snow
- Average hiking speeds on class 1 and 2 terrain
- Average hiking speeds on class 3, 4, and 5 and above

. . . and any other situations one might encounter in the mountains.

[d_baker]

So this is probably a stupid question, but how exactly do people get this number?

Simple - they make it up and then spray about it.

So get started!

SkaredShtles, planting seeds back in 2014!

[mtree]

I've always been a big proponent on knowing your average hiking speed by ft/hour.

However, there is too much variance with trenching, deep snow, or class 3 and above to get any useful averages. One class 4 route might have more sustained or difficult sections than another route. You might be able to estimate how much time it SHOULD take you given collective data and your climbing skills, but attempting an unknown route without any prior knowledge and you're just estimating. Add the variance of snow type, depth, and overall winter conditions and you're rolling the dice.

A good example is my ascent times of Quandary during winter conditions. They're all over the map. And its not like I've only done it 5 times.

[Ed_Groves]

I've always been a big proponent on knowing your average hiking speed by ft/hour.

However, there is too much variance with trenching, deep snow, or class 3 and above to get any useful averages. One class 4 route might have more sustained or difficult sections than another route. You might be able to estimate how much time it SHOULD take you given collective data and your climbing skills, but attempting an unknown route without any prior knowledge and you're just estimating. Add the variance of snow type, depth, and overall winter conditions and you're rolling the dice.

A good example is my ascent times of Quandary during winter conditions. They're all over the map. And its not like I've only done it 5 times.

Good points. I understand there is a lot of variability in conditions such as looseness of the route, snow depth, ice accumulation, solid hand and footholds, etc. as well as knowledge of the route such as one's first time on a specific class 3 or 4 route. I just thought that maybe some of the people who live and breath climbing every week would have some averages of their own they might submit.

As for me, I have only looked at my feet per hour once in a while so I don't have a good grasp on it. When somewhat acclimatized I can get close to 2 mph more or less on a class 1 or 2, but when I first arrive in Colorado I pretty much average 1.5 to 1.6 mph for a round trip hike. Easy class 3 isn't much different but when I am in steeper class 3 I slow down to check hand and footholds. I am too old and feel like I have too much to lose to not be conservative in my approach. I did the east gully of crestone needle for the first time last year and was quite slow on the steep sections though I felt comfortable with the exposure throughout. So I definitely get slower the higher the class of the climb. I have very little experience in snow. I did hike Quandary and the Decalibron after a snowstorm in early September of 2020 but a good trench was already in place. I was very new to the 14ers then and didn't pay any attention to my speed.

[ltlFish99]

Now in my mid 60ies, I am more slowish, especially on steeper inclines.
Also slow down more as the terain becomes more difficult, and or exposed.
I am probably stating the obvious, but harder/exposed Terain that was quite exciting and fun in my 20ies until my 50ies, is now certainly where I really take my time, and assess e everything more cautiously, as self preservation has become increasingly important now at 65.