Women’s Self-Supported 14er FKT

[CaptainSuburbia]

Based on their website it looks like you can only book until July. Is that true or am I just having issues on the site? Maybe worse case once August becomes available book for the first week of August and that be one of your later 14ers?

My understanding is that they do not allow hikers after July as that is when they open for hunting, which is where they make their real money.

This is true

They have been known to grant special permission at other times.

[quinnwolf]

First of all, this Culebra issue (whether you agree with it or not) has been known for a long time. You could have easily gotten a reservation 6 months ago like everybody else who does this. You have to plan for this kind of fkt at least 6 months in advance, so why are you just coming across this issue now?
Same for Lindsey.
Maybe Decalibron is a little excusable since it happened pretty recently.
Also, I thought that any resources you used had to be available to the general public. Like you can stay in hotels, but not your friend's private house. Would having "special connections" to help you get access violate that rule?

[andrewhamilton]

I know it seems expensive to hand over $150 to hike. However did you know that they charge something like $75,000 to $80,000 for a bighorn sheep permit. And I’m sure it’s thousands for an elk permit as well. So it seems to me that we should be extremely thankful that we have access at all. All of the hiking money combined is just a pittance compared to what they get in hunting fees. Back in the early 2000’s climbing Culebra was a nightmare as for a few years it was totally off limits.

So my biggest fear is that someone comes along and publicly does something illegal that jeopardizes access for everyone else. I would say just follow bill’s advice or yeah do a “legal 14ers” record. I did that in 2003 when i skipped Culebra because it was off limits on my self powered biking record attempt, and honestly it does bug me a little that i didn’t do Culebra but i still feel strongly that it was the correct choice at the time.

[mtnhigh358]

would say just follow bill’s advice or yeah do a “legal 14ers” record.

Because technically culebra is legal, (if you have a permit) she could do a “free and legal” 14er self supported record

[Skimo95]

No Culebra, no record in my opinion. Best of luck getting Carlos to forgive you and sell you a permit. I’m stoked to get on the southern group of CVR 13ers next weekend. I’ve always told myself if I can’t afford it, work harder and save more. Granted you figure out access to the closed peaks, I’m sure you’ll crush it based on your resume.

[Chrisfish25]

My understanding is that they do not allow hikers after July as that is when they open for hunting, which is where they make their real money.

This is true

They have been known to grant special permission at other times.

Carlos replied to me, “I will not grant any special permission”
so yea, he has in the past but now he won’t for whatever reason.

[JROSKA]

When I go to FKT sites, I don’t really see many strict black and white rules, but there is a strong recommendation that routes should not cross private property, mainly out of fairness considerations. One person may have access and the next may not. One person may want to avoid trespassing and the next may not. You could have a situation (seems to be the case here) where the landowner just doesn’t like someone and won’t grant access, while he may relax the rules for someone else. That’s not really fair and as others have brought up, it introduces unequal treatment based on who has better connections and that’s not what FKT is supposed to be about.

FKT rules seem to suggest that routes are supposed to be open to everyone and if they’re not, they shouldn’t be included in the competition. Given all of the access issues with 6 peaks now, it seems like the only two solutions are to either remove them or replace them with 6 similar peaks. For instance I’ve always thought Yale is essentially the same mountain as Culebra only with more elevation gain. Or replace Culebra with W Spanish or something else nearby. Seems like all of FKT current and past FKT competitors here are smart people with respect to Colorado mountains and could come up with suitable replacements / time allowances.

It seems like with respect to FKT, continuing to make competitors jump through hoops, pull strings, offer money, make personal ethical decisions about whether to trespass or not, isn’t really a viable solution. Unless all Colorado 14er FKT is paused until the access issues clear up. But that could take years.

[mtnhigh358]

Jroska— actually the fkt website has a cumbersome list of black and white rules, in their attempt to level the playing field. The difficulties you describe have nothing to do with the FKT website, culebra has always been a hurdle for people going for 14er records. In this case, Culebra is the same for everyone. Everyone has the same opportunity to buy a ticket, and Carlos is actually being quite fair when he states that he’s not making exceptions for anyone.

I don’t think the Fkt people are making people jump through hoops, that is just poor/late planning that is causing those problems. With good planning they would have had their tickets/permission for Culebra secured a long time ago. And it wouldn’t have required any bribing, pleading, or begging.

It’s pretty simple in fact, if someone wants to set a record for climbing all of the Fourteeners, then they should have to climb all of the Fourteeners. Especially when records for this have already been established. It might be different if a specific record has not been established. But in this case, just last year Dan Hobbs set the mens record and he had to get a pass for culebra.

And culebra is actually easy, getting permission for decalibron and Lindsey sounds practically impossible now.
There are plenty of other fkts out there for athletes who don’t want to deal with these issues.

[highheeledhiker]

When I go to FKT sites, I don’t really see many strict black and white rules, but there is a strong recommendation that routes should not cross private property, mainly out of fairness considerations. One person may have access and the next may not. One person may want to avoid trespassing and the next may not. You could have a situation (seems to be the case here) where the landowner just doesn’t like someone and won’t grant access, while he may relax the rules for someone else. That’s not really fair and as others have brought up, it introduces unequal treatment based on who has better connections and that’s not what FKT is supposed to be about.

FKT rules seem to suggest that routes are supposed to be open to everyone and if they’re not, they shouldn’t be included in the competition. Given all of the access issues with 6 peaks now, it seems like the only two solutions are to either remove them or replace them with 6 similar peaks. For instance I’ve always thought Yale is essentially the same mountain as Culebra only with more elevation gain. Or replace Culebra with W Spanish or something else nearby. Seems like all of FKT current and past FKT competitors here are smart people with respect to Colorado mountains and could come up with suitable replacements / time allowances.

It seems like with respect to FKT, continuing to make competitors jump through hoops, pull strings, offer money, make personal ethical decisions about whether to trespass or not, isn’t really a viable solution. Unless all Colorado 14er FKT is paused until the access issues clear up. But that could take years.

I 100% agree with this comment. I honestly wish Carlos would just close Culebra Peak to all hikers so that it could be an even playing field. The purpose of this FKT is to test athletic and mental limits not to see who has the most connections. I absolutely love the logistical component of planning peak order and routes. It is truly a puzzle. But, as you mentioned, being stuck in the position of whether to trespass or not crosses a line and undermines what this FKT is about. Obviously, no one wants to trespass given the option but there needs to be a consensus about what constitutes a record, which is what I’m trying to assess now. While it may not be as personally fulfilling, I would happily climb the next highest or comparable peaks.

[XterraRob]

Are you going to do the full FKT in high heels?

[Gulf_Coast_Hiker]

Are you going to do the full FKT in high heels?

This year it's gonna be high heels and micro spikes.

[seano]

... I’m coming on here to announce that this July I plan on attempting to set a women’s self-supported 14er speed record... gather support from sponsors...

I feel obligated to climb Culebra for the purposes of keeping the record consistent, but I’m mostly doing this for myself and to see how fast I can climb them all in a self-supported fashion.

I don't see how these square with "doing it for yourself," but I'd just pick an equivalent peak in terms of driving time, distance, and gain -- CO has plenty of free high 13er walk-ups. You'll know you can climb the 14ers in such-and-such a time, and not have to deal with CV or the couch jockeys here debating your ethics.