Vehicles

[GuiGirard]

Change your user name to Subaru.

Get one quick, before electric is your only option.

Electric is NEVER going to be your only option. You think that the oil lobby is gonna let this happen... so naive!

Regardless, electric is better in every aspect, and particularly off road when lots of torque is needed. Just have to wait for fast chargers to be as widespread as gas stations in order for them to be usable on long road trips away from home. Plus, unlike conventional cars, they run on REAL batteries and will always start, unlike those Pb POS that die with no warning after too many times opening/closing the doors while car-camping (happened to me twice last week, on my Outback, then once a stranger rescues you, you drive to town to get your battery tested and they tell you it's fine, lmao).
But I wouldn't count on conventional carmakers to develop the GOOD electric vehicles. They will always drag their feet to develop POS that are intentionally inferior to their gas powered line of products (for instance Subaru with the Solterra, which has less clearance than any of the Outback, Crosstrek, or Forester and is also not available in the Wilderness line...), so that they do not sell well and that they can throw the towel later and whine to obtain govt subsidies when they are about to fold.

Fast forward 5-10 years, I think the best vehicles for CO mountain roads will be the Rivian, whereas the best vehicle for highway use already is the Tesla.

For the time being, the best compromise between fuel economy, cargo space, clearance and off road capability is imo the Outback. But I am not religiously pro-Subaru (see my above rants), I just own my 3rd by pragmatism.

[GuiGirard]

Change your user name to Subaru.

Get one quick, before electric is your only option.

Electric is NEVER going to be your only option. You think that the oil lobby is gonna let this happen... so naive!

Regardless, electric is better in every aspect, and particularly off road when lots of torque is needed. Just have to wait for fast chargers to be as widespread as gas stations in order for them to be usable on long road trips away from home. Plus, unlike conventional cars, they run on REAL batteries and will always start, unlike those Pb POS that die with no warning after too many times opening/closing the doors while car-camping (happened to me twice last week, on my Outback, then once a stranger rescues you, you drive to town to get your battery tested and they tell you it's fine, lmao).
But I wouldn't count on conventional carmakers to develop the GOOD electric vehicles. They will always drag their feet to develop POS that are intentionally inferior to their gas powered line of products (for instance Subaru with the Solterra, which has less clearance than any of the Outback, Crosstrek, or Forester and is also not available in the Wilderness line...), so that they do not sell well and that they can throw the towel later and whine to obtain govt subsidies when they are about to fold.

Fast forward 5-10 years, I think the best vehicles for CO mountain roads will be the Rivian, whereas the best vehicle for highway use already is the Tesla.

For the time being, the best compromise between fuel economy, comfort in highway use, cargo space, clearance and off road capability is imo the Outback. But I am not religiously pro-Subaru (see my above rants), I just own my 3rd by pragmatism.

[jrbren_vt]

Referencing https://www.14ers.com/php14ers/trailhea ... iculty.php , especially the class 1-4 roads to most THs here: Anyone have any luck (good or bad) with the Subaru Wilderness series vehicles or the Ford Bronco Sport (Badlands Trim) on these roads ? Where can I find a more detailed definition of what the class rating of these roads means ? Is there a grade associated with that ? Rock gardens vs. mud/ruts ? How much better would an off-road trim of a Ranger (not Raptor) or Tacoma or similar be ? Gas mileage is the trade off there.
Is anyone familiar with the drive up to the gate near the top of Almagre in Colorado Springs ? What "class" would that road be ? I have walked the road a couple of times. The drive-up to Hermit Pass in the Sangres ? Lower TH to Upper TH for East Spanish Peak ?

* I did get my CrossTrek (not Wilderness edition) to Grizzly Gulch/Silver Creek TH for RedCloud/Sunshine/Handies twice without hitting bottom, but I did see a couple of regular passenger cars there with much worse clearance than my Xtrek, so I am little surprised to see this listed as a 4 wheel drive road.

[madmattd]

Referencing https://www.14ers.com/php14ers/trailhea ... iculty.php , especially the class 1-4 roads to most THs here: Anyone have any luck (good or bad) with the Subaru Wilderness series vehicles or the Ford Bronco Sport (Badlands Trim) on these roads ? Where can I find a more detailed definition of what the class rating of these roads means ? Is there a grade associated with that ? Rock gardens vs. mud/ruts ? How much better would an off-road trim of a Ranger (not Raptor) or Tacoma or similar be ? Gas mileage is the trade off there.
Is anyone familiar with the drive up to the gate near the top of Almagre in Colorado Springs ? What "class" would that road be ? I have walked the road a couple of times. The drive-up to Hermit Pass in the Sangres ? Lower TH to Upper TH for East Spanish Peak ?

* I did get my CrossTrek (not Wilderness edition) to Grizzly Gulch/Silver Creek TH for RedCloud/Sunshine/Handies twice without hitting bottom, but I did see a couple of regular passenger cars there with much worse clearance than my Xtrek, so I am little surprised to see this listed as a 4 wheel drive road.

It varies wildly. Some 3/4 roads are just muddy ruts, some are spectacularly rocky. I tend to read reports/condition entries to figure out which side of things a given road falls on (accounting for the fact that some people will drive anything with anything with much less regard for damage concerns than me). Generally anything a 3 seems to be fine for an Outback/Crosstrek class vehicle and above. SOME 4 roads are fine, some I wouldn't go anywhere near with such a vehicle personally.

Grizzly Gulch swings between a 2 and a 3 depending on the year (and sometimes the time of year) based on several trips in there myself.

Which brings up another point: the condition on the various roads can vary heavily from year to year and season to season. Just because a Prius made it last year doesn't mean an Outback won't hate doing it this year. And then there's the Corollas that sometimes show up in the most surprising places!

A Taco will be significantly more capable on the 4 roads than an Outback (I can't speak to the Bronco as I have no experience there). 4Low and better clearance (only one low spot on a truck - the rear diff - versus the entire undercarriage for an Outback) for the Tacoma. There is a notable gas mileage tradeoff for sure. How often you realistically plan to be on roads that need that extra capability would be my decision-maker personally.

[Jon Frohlich]

Is anyone familiar with the drive up to the gate near the top of Almagre in Colorado Springs ? What "class" would that road be ? I have walked the road a couple of times.

Based on the comparisons here I'd call the road to Almagre a 5. I have driven to the gate and I wouldn't drive it in anything less than a 4Runner, Tacoma or equivalent. A Subaru has no business on that road. We have two 4Runners (one with a 3 inch lift and one stock) and I wouldn't have been at all thrilled if we'd had the stock one that day. We watched a stock Jeep Cherokee have considerable difficulty although I think the lack of skill of the driver wasn't helping.

[jrbren_vt]

Thanks for the replies, those are both useful.

[terribletigzy]

I can’t speak for the wilderness editions of the Subarus specifically, I have a normal Forester. From my understanding, the wilderness is slightly more capable, but it is still a Subaru and not something like a 4runner etc. I have had great success accessing trails up to a 3 difficulty. I would say that most any driver can get a Subaru up a 3 without too much concern. There can be some tricky spots on 3’s, but nothing too bad. I have also gotten my car up to some trailheads that are rated a 4, but this is pretty aggressive. I got my car up to the 4wd trailhead on south colony basin twice (once was early season and wasn’t too bad, but went back later the same year and the conditions were much worse) and stopped after the last creek crossing ~0.5 miles before the end of the American Basin trailhead. This was all with all-season tires. IMO a more conservative person should probably stick to 3s with a stock Subaru. 4s are possible, but are definitely pushing it and could cause damage to your vehicle. I’m putting some all-terrain tires on my car and skid plates. It’s a small investment for some peace of mind on those 4s.

I think the Subaru is a great compromise between on-road comfort/daily driving performance and ability to access most trailheads. They are way cheaper and get way better gas mileage than a more dedicated 4x4. You won’t be able to access everything, but that’s why you find a friend with a jeep!