Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
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My sentiments exactly. I hope he heals but everytime I read a post that ...others can learn from my mistakes...
I already had do not climb 14ers barefoot checked off, didn't need to add "in the snow". Recently added no Winter Crocs. The lesson is one I often seen debated on this forum, know when to turn back. No summit is worth your life or your legs.
When Melissa had her frostbite, the docs wouldn’t let her eat for the first few hours in the hospital in case they needed to do emergency surgery to amputate. Thankfully, the blood flow came back into her lower legs and feet and her amputation was only toes (and didn’t occur until months later once it was clear what was dead and what was ok).
Best wishes to Nick and the Noland family as the recovery process begins.
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment." --- Nasreddin
jrs1965 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:27 pm
I was surprised that they operated so quickly. In my past life in the Army I recall a class on cold weather injuries where the MD had said something to the effect of "freeze in January, operate in July." Meaning, they typically wait months before surgery and it's determined that the tissue no longer has a chance of survival. That, plus hyperbaric treatment being used to try and save the tissue was mentioned. Crazy.
If frostbite is severe, I've seen a few photos of it in some climbing books, then the damage is obvious, skin turns black, it's just dead tissue that isn't going to recover. I think they need to get if off pretty quickly before infection sets in. That must have been the situation here.
This is so sad to hear but I’m glad he made it out alive and back to his family.
Hiking high on the mountains in cold weather puts us on a narrow path where our actions can quickly force us into a bad situation. It doesn’t take much; Getting off-route, insufficient gear, getting sweaty, or simply under-estimating the effort requirement on the hike. Something that may be minor in summer may be catastrophic in winter conditions.
It’s nice to see that Brad posted here. Ask him how fast things can go to sh!t. But he and Melissa survived and bounced back with resilience and experience. Now, Brad climbs more mountains than almost all of us. I hope the same for Nick. I hope he’s able to get back to the mountains.
Proud to be against fascism, racism, xenophobia and stupidity.
The low that night at Monarch Pass (11,800') was about 20 degrees, with 30 mph winds and windchills in the single digits. If his clothing wasn't well insulated it's not hard to imagine that his core temp got pretty low.
Climbing at altitude is like hitting your head against a brick wall — it's great when you stop. -- Chris Darwin
I'm pretty tired. I think I'll go home now. -- Forrest Gump
horrible price to pay for whatever mistakes he may or may not have made. from the video that was posted, it sounded like he came to a point where he felt he had to choose between his losing his feet to frostbite, or losing his life to hypothermia.
i personally believe a lot can be learned by analyzing accidents like this, and it can be done while still being respectful and nonjudgmental towards the person(s) involved. the guy said himself that he hoped people could use his story to learn more about safety in the mountains. that said, there's still a lot we don't know yet about this particular accident. hopefully it will end up in the next Accidents in North American Climbing with more details and analysis, so his wish that others can learn from his experience will be realized.
"The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you're emotionally detached from it." - George Carlin
Based on one bad personal experience, I can relate to both issues of shoes coming off and frostbite in seemingly mild conditions.
In May 2011 still a newbie, I attempted Bierstadt while everything was still covered in deep slushy snow. Started too late, completely alone on the peak and realized about halfway up that my feet were soaking wet, so I headed down. Thought I spotted a shortcut down, directly over the willows. I would spend the next 8 hours sinking up to my chest, digging out, resting and in the process lost one boot, when I pulled my foot up it was just gone. I tried for awhile to dig it out but could not. Light was fading fast and I was desperate to get off that peak.
I’m guessing that I still had a mile to get to the road and then almost another mile to where the car was parked, most of it after dark, with no boot on one foot. I think I stopped once to change socks & try to dry that foot, and the air temperature was probably still in the 40’s. However after 3 hours or so of being in direct contact with the snow, that foot was completely numb by the time I reached the car and two toes were turning bluish-black. On paper you wouldn’t think those conditions would lead to frostbite but I did have a mild case and it would have been a lot worse had I been stuck up there much longer.
Even if the air temperature is above freezing, especially after dark it’s probably a few degrees colder right at the ground. And the skin being wet drastically enhances the process.
“Is there a thing of which it is said, ‘See, this is new’? It has been already in the ages before us. There is no remembrance of former things, nor will there be any remembrance of later things yet to be among those who come after.” - Ecclesiastes 1:10-11
Sending lots of love to Nick and his family. This story is so similar to my own that it's been bringing a lot of reflection the last couple of days. I was fortunate that I was not alone and my damage was not as bad as Nick's, but it's still amazing to me how similar the stories are. If anyone know's Nick or his family, I would be happy to talk/listen with them.
jrs1965 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:27 pm
I was surprised that they operated so quickly. In my past life in the Army I recall a class on cold weather injuries where the MD had said something to the effect of "freeze in January, operate in July." Meaning, they typically wait months before surgery and it's determined that the tissue no longer has a chance of survival. That, plus hyperbaric treatment being used to try and save the tissue was mentioned. Crazy.
If frostbite is severe, I've seen a few photo of it in some climbing books, then the damage is obvious, skin turns black, it's just dead tissue that isn't going to recover. I think they need to get if off pretty quickly before infection sets in. That must have been the situation here.
This brings up the fascinating story of Hugh Herr. The loss of his legs during a tragic climbing outing, his pivot to prosthetics development, and the potential application of his innovative technologies to Nick's situation all resonate. Now the decision is "suffer through months of uncertain agony or begin to adjust to a new reality as quickly and painlessly as possible." Nick should be commended for having the gumption to survive, and for his optimistic attitude towards enjoying life with his friends and family. I wish him a speedy recovery and hope he's out breathing in some thin air as soon as possible.