Andrew Hamilton - Nolans Unsupported 2015 attempt

[pbakwin]

What was your total mileage Andrew? I saw someone say you may have been down to 70 miles. Is that really true?

It's obviously WAY longer than 70 miles. If you draw straight lines between the summits plus the starting and ending THs it's 57 miles. You have factor in 45000' vertical of climbing and 45000' of descending - you go up and down 8.5 miles each! Somebody who is better at geometry can figure out the theoretical shortest distance if you were to walk straight lines between the summits, but it's going to be in the neighborhood of 70 miles (>57 and <76). 100 miles total is probably about right in the real world. Andrew's routes are clearly very efficient for him, but not necessarily much shorter than what others use. He did a good short cut off Antero, but he took the long way around ascending Yale. Etc. It's not about distance, it's about efficiency.

[JulianSmith]

Thanks Andrew; You have given me a lot of stuff to look at next summer. Not sure how to return the favor, but if you would like to get together and let me show you what we have put together on Princeton, I would be happy any time. Anyway, here goes my attempt on what we have been mulling over for Princeton.
From Alpine, take the trail that leaves the cemetery, and climb the trail until it ends in a grassy meadow. Keep going up the meadow until you get above tree-line. Look for a scree gully, which will take you to ridge, at a junction just below Point 13,997 or whatever it is... just a short, easy jaunt will get you to the summit of Princeton. This way is a little obnoxious S to N, but is very nice when going down on a N to S route, nice, fast scree that you can plunge step down instead of dealing with slidey rocks and tippy blocks. S to N, it is pretty loose, but it is a lot faster than the SW Ridge.

As for my thoughts on going down to Cottonwood Lake, that route is still more in the formative stages, but I believe in it. It just needs a little more tweaking and some love. From just below the summit of Princeton, like you are heading back to Point 13,997, descend W-NW into the very top of Maxwell Gulch. Once at the bottom of the obnoxious, but short talus slope (this might be about 12,800, head directly across the valley and ascend perhaps 400' to the lowest point on the ridge in front of you. From the saddle, locate a very nice goat trail and descend easily into the grassy valley below. Continue down the valley, and then navigate a little further over into Spruce Gulch and come out by the bottom of Cottonwood Lake. We have gone wrong here a few times, and almost have it worked out. It's amazing that somehow getting down the last 1/4 of a mile or so below tree-line can most of the time be the crux of the descent. Anyway, I suppose we will soon have it worked out pretty well. I think this way has the potential to cut off 5 miles or so from the normal descent down to the CT.

[JulianSmith]

Mt. Princeton to Cottonwood Lake

[andrewhamilton]

Wow Julian you have outdone me with those pictures! Hey would you be up for some early season scouting next June? That might be fun!

[johnF]

If you draw straight lines between the summits plus the starting and ending THs it's 57 miles. You have factor in 45000' vertical of climbing and 45000' of descending - you go up and down 8.5 miles each! Somebody who is better at geometry can figure out the theoretical shortest distance if you were to walk straight lines between the summits, but it's going to be in the neighborhood of 70 miles (>57 and <76).

Surprisingly, the vertical gain and loss adds very little - if we're just talking straight lines with 57 miles across, 8.5 miles up, 8.5 miles down, you get a total distance covered of only 59.5 miles.

I imagine there's much more of a distance increase due to the particular routes chosen and the fact that they cannot be done anywhere close to a straight line, but I'm not familiar enough with these routes to give any guesstimate on what that might add.

[JulianSmith]

Wow Julian you have outdone me with those pictures! Hey would you be up for some early season scouting next June? That might be fun!

Any time; Camp Treadstone runs for 5 weekends, starting about 2 weeks after Hardrock too. That's a great way to get out and share some lines.

[pbakwin]

If you draw straight lines between the summits plus the starting and ending THs it's 57 miles. You have factor in 45000' vertical of climbing and 45000' of descending - you go up and down 8.5 miles each! Somebody who is better at geometry can figure out the theoretical shortest distance if you were to walk straight lines between the summits, but it's going to be in the neighborhood of 70 miles (>57 and <76).

Surprisingly, the vertical gain and loss adds very little - if we're just talking straight lines with 57 miles across, 8.5 miles up, 8.5 miles down, you get a total distance covered of only 59.5 miles.

I imagine there's much more of a distance increase due to the particular routes chosen and the fact that they cannot be done anywhere close to a straight line, but I'm not familiar enough with these routes to give any guesstimate on what that might add.

Don't know if it matters much, but it's more like 14 lines going up 3200' and across 2 miles, and 14 more lines going down 3200' and across 2 miles. Of course real terrain is way different, and the inability to walk in straight lines is clearly the biggest factor. I was just pointing out that 70 miles is obviously a fantasy. In the real world terrain adds at least 30 miles, probably closer to 40.

Now, Julian's Princeton N-side route - that's cool!

[jenkscolin]

Just gotta say its super cool to see Julian and Andrew sharing information with each other. Class act on both of your parts.

[GreenHorn]

From just below the summit of Princeton, like you are heading back to Point 13,997, descend W-NW into the very top of Maxwell Gulch. Once at the bottom of the obnoxious, but short talus slope (this might be about 12,800, head directly across the valley and ascend perhaps 400' to the lowest point on the ridge in front of you. From the saddle, locate a very nice goat trail and descend easily into the grassy valley below. Continue down the valley, and then navigate a little further over into Spruce Gulch and come out by the bottom of Cottonwood Lake. We have gone wrong here a few times, and almost have it worked out. It's amazing that somehow getting down the last 1/4 of a mile or so below tree-line can most of the time be the crux of the descent.

Julian, are you advocating continuing the more direct route to Yale via Porphyry Gulch or taking the road once you reach CR344? If it's the latter (which I would think has to be faster), what's the benefit of going over to Spruce Gulch rather than continuing down the other valley to the road?

[JulianSmith]

From just below the summit of Princeton, like you are heading back to Point 13,997, descend W-NW into the very top of Maxwell Gulch. Once at the bottom of the obnoxious, but short talus slope (this might be about 12,800, head directly across the valley and ascend perhaps 400' to the lowest point on the ridge in front of you. From the saddle, locate a very nice goat trail and descend easily into the grassy valley below. Continue down the valley, and then navigate a little further over into Spruce Gulch and come out by the bottom of Cottonwood Lake. We have gone wrong here a few times, and almost have it worked out. It's amazing that somehow getting down the last 1/4 of a mile or so below tree-line can most of the time be the crux of the descent.

Julian, are you advocating continuing the more direct route to Yale via Porphyry Gulch or taking the road once you reach CR344? If it's the latter (which I would think has to be faster), what's the benefit of going over to Spruce Gulch rather than continuing down the other valley to the road?

So, if you don't go over to Spruce Gulch, you end up in a tragic situation like we did. The valley is great until the last 1/2 mile or so. Almost had a mutiny on my hands!

So, we have been going down the road. Logan took a look up Porphyry Gulch Gulch, but said there is a lot of downed trees at the saddle. I haven't made it up there yet, but it looks like a great way to get over to Denny Creek. Might cut a whole lot of mileage off that way if it ever goes without being too painful.