Fitness for older athletes - advice needed

[mtree]

I wouldn't stress over this. I find my endurance and strength ebbs and flows depending on how much I hike. I used to be able to cover a 10 hour day like it was nothing. Now I find I need to get in shape and/or stay in shape to manage anything close to that. I just don't get out as much anymore. I'm sure age is a factor, but everyone's different and everyone ages differently.

Each year I track my hikes on Bierstadt. Its my measuring stick and I've been tracking it for over 20 years! I record time to summit and time to finish. I notate anything memorable - good or bad - from the hike. That can be weather conditions, injury, fatigue, anything really. Overall, I summit and complete in around the same time year after year. A little slower in June vs September. So far my balance is fine and is never an issue. (Probably because I still practice Tae kwon do.) I don't do gyms and I don't weight train. I run, but my mileage is under 5 miles because it bores me. Most of everything is hiking. I usually wear the same gear wherever I hike even if its in the foothills. I do train with a heavy pack if I'm planning on backpacking. And sometimes I'll run downhill for extra leg strength and stamina. Otherwise, if I'm planning a day over 5-6 hours I hike more often to build up stamina. I'm not 25 anymore!

My point is don't stress. Maybe you just needed an extra day or two of recovery from your sick run a couple days prior. It is a fact your muscles need time to recover.

[SkaredShtles]

I was thinking of posting here for the same question.

65 years old, getting slower beyond my years.

Hikes that took 4 hours taking 8 and my head spinning and feeling like I am dying.

Just normal aging, or something that can be overcome?

I take blood pressure medicine and think that may be part of the problem. Tweeked the dosage and content over the years with varying results. Still a prime suspect for my lack of endurance these past few years. But overcoming injuries is a compounding factor that makes it hard to figure out.

I would like to hear from the senior group here, and discount jackass responses like that from skardshtles.

Anyone over 60 who has found second wind, chime in please.

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Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

[LarryM]

I can only tell what has worked and not worked for me, and I am "only" 58, so take it with a grain of salt.
When I was young, all I did for training was run. Then I would just come out to Colorado and knock out peaks just using 3:00 marathon fitness.
Now that I am 58 I don't have 3:00 marathon fitness, so I have to be much more focused in my training towards climbing.

Specificity is important; I found that out last fall. I didn't do any "longer" hikes (10+ miles) last year to prepare for climbing.
The result of that was that I suffered pretty bad on Snowmass (9 miles on day 1, then 15 on day 2).
As others have said, interval training is good because it raises your ceiling. I can't access any real mountains in MO, so I find the steepest long hill that is close and go up and down it 15-30 times with an oversized/overweighted pack. Yes, it's boring in a way, and it's hard, but it works better than if I just hiked at 80% level effort all the time.
I do 1 leg stands on a balance device (a wobbly platform that you have to struggle to maintain balance on). That helps. To me that is important as I get older; I don't want to lose my balance on an exposed part of a mountain.
Having stronger legs will reduce fatigue. If you really want to go crazy you can do eccentric leg training (leg extensions where you bring your legs down real slowly), since that is what you do on a descent. Be careful with those, they can make you really sore. A little goes a long ways.

Hope some of this helps. Keep in mind that slowing down some is inevitable as you get older, sorry to say.

Sean Nunn
Peculiar, MO

Thanks, good advice.

-the balance advice is good, and I do need to incorporate that. I also had been, and plan to resume, taking ballet classes - mainly in support of my other advocation, acting and specifically musical theater performance, but it does have ancillary benefits for trail running.

-dong longer runs/hikes is obviously great advice, but I'm already incorporating that.

-interval training is probably not at the top of the list of what I need now. I worked hard on my aerobic capacity earlier this year, and I am rarely limited by that. Saturday was much more a case of tired legs.

-I was dismissive of strength work in my OP, mainly because, living where I do and doing what I do, I get plenty of specific hill training on my runs (even this year, focusing a little less on vert and more on fast runs on the flat and runnable vert (that's how I got a lot of my aerobic capacity back), I have 148,596 feet of vert on the year so far). But, especially at my age, supplementing that with strength work could help prevent tired legs late on a big day (as well as having other benefits).

-and, yes, in my case at least, there is a big difference between 58 and 66.

One other side note - looking at the last 3 miles, up and down Half Moon pass, my pace on the up was almost exactly the same as my pace on the down (just a tad faster on the down). That tells me something I guess - just not sure what.

[LarryM]

I wouldn't stress over this. I find my endurance and strength ebbs and flows depending on how much I hike. I used to be able to cover a 10 hour day like it was nothing. Now I find I need to get in shape and/or stay in shape to manage anything close to that. I just don't get out as much anymore. I'm sure age is a factor, but everyone's different and everyone ages differently.

Each year I track my hikes on Bierstadt. Its my measuring stick and I've been tracking it for over 20 years! I record time to summit and time to finish. I notate anything memorable - good or bad - from the hike. That can be weather conditions, injury, fatigue, anything really. Overall, I summit and complete in around the same time year after year. A little slower in June vs September. So far my balance is fine and is never an issue. (Probably because I still practice Tae kwon do.) I don't do gyms and I don't weight train. I run, but my mileage is under 5 miles because it bores me. Most of everything is hiking. I usually wear the same gear wherever I hike even if its in the foothills. I do train with a heavy pack if I'm planning on backpacking. And sometimes I'll run downhill for extra leg strength and stamina. Otherwise, if I'm planning a day over 5-6 hours I hike more often to build up stamina. I'm not 25 anymore!

My point is don't stress. Maybe you just needed an extra day or two of recovery from your sick run a couple days prior. It is a fact your muscles need time to recover.

You're right, of course - but I do still have some big goals on my list, and I'd just rather they take me 10 hours rather than 12 1/2. And yes, maybe doing this 2 days after an 18 mile run was a mistake.

[daway8]

At 48, I'm still a good ways off from 60 but I had been seeing my speed drop and then was sidelined completely over concerns at planatar fasciitis flaring up. But now, after working through some rehab, I'm doing routes like the Decalibron and Kelso Ridge and knocking a full hour off of my previous times.

I suspect a lot of that has to do with the plantar fasciitis scare finally motivating me to do the type of exercising during the week that I always should have been doing. One of the key exercises I've been doing is the Rathleff Protocol, which is a type of calf raises with concentric, isometric, and eucentric loading (rise slowly over 3sec, hold at top for 2sec, and take 3sec to lower). Recently started adding Bulgarian split squats to help the quads since a strength test at the PT office showed my quads were weaker than my hamstrings.

Maybe it's mostly because I'm coming back from injury and still a good bit younger than you but I've been pleasantly shocked that even with a 40lbs pack on, the trailrunners were struggling to overtake me going up Bear Peak the other day (which I found both greatly amusing and very encouraging).

Can't say for sure if you can still expect results like that at your age, but as someone fast approaching 50 I've proved that effective training during the week can yield major benefits vs being just a weekend warrior (not that this should be any real surprise, but it is nice to be able to prove out in real life).

[Jorts]

Strength and mobility increase in importance with age. You already have the aerobic fitness. Maintain the cardiovascular but incorporate more strength as well as short powerful intervals, like strides.

You never answered my question but it sounded like eccentric muscular fatigue to me which can be exacerbated with dehydration and/or low glycogen availability.

[LarryM]

Strength and mobility increase in importance with age. You already have the aerobic fitness. Maintain the cardiovascular but incorporate more strength as well as short powerful intervals, like strides.

You never answered my question but it sounded like eccentric muscular fatigue to me which can be exacerbated with dehydration and/or low glycogen availability.

To answer your original question, yes, mainly muscular fatigue, with some generalized fatigue but I've done enough of this kind of stuff that I can generally work my way past the latter. And yes, as I said in one of my posts up thread, I do think it was caused in part by under fueling, i.e., low glycogen availability.

That said, a question re intervals - my impression is that the main benefit of interval training is aerobic. Am I missing something? If I incorporate that, I would think it would be most valuable on the uphill, correct? Will strides on the flat help with muscular fatigue?

[rijaca]

"Old age is no place for sissies."

[Jorts]

That said, a question re intervals - my impression is that the main benefit of interval training is aerobic. Am I missing something? If I incorporate that, I would think it would be most valuable on the uphill, correct? Will strides on the flat help with muscular fatigue?

Long, slow distance helps the most with aerobic fitness - having your HR between 60 and 70% of max. It's a metabolic state where the ratio of fat burn to carb burn is more fat than carbs. When you're going hard you're not getting much benefit to your aerobic threshold. Think of aerobic threshold as "the floor" and anaerobic threshold as "the ceiling". You want both to be as high as possible but they're completely different energy systems. You can push your aerobic threshold with long, easy effort days. You can push your anaerobic threshold with VO2amx efforts like 4 x 4 minutes. But I digress.

Short, explosive uphill intervals are neuromuscular and anaerobic adaptations. You're already done with the interval before your HR becomes unsustainable. Strides on the flat help with speed more than power. You don't need a lot of strides/HIIT/bounding to reap benefits. Like twice a week.

You can increase durability the most by doing hard, downhill efforts once every few weeks. BUT... it's also riskier to ligament and tendon health compared to strength work and uphill strides. I never introduce downhill intervals until I have a really good strength base established.

[osprey]

"Old age is no place for sissies."


“No coward path ….. for those who winter into wisdom.”
Beowulf

[boudreaux]

Hey Larry, I'm 64 and have been experiencing some old age related issues myself. Headed up to Bierstadt for my annual check up tomorrow and will let you know how it goes.

All the moving parts are in good shape, but I believe my problem is low-T. Consequently I have changed my diet, a tweak here, a tweak there with some success, but it seems that the changes are not long term and I find myself slow with no energy. Just a dead man walking somedays. The thing that gets me the most is my mental attitude where I just don't care. It takes more mental gymnastics to get motivated to get out there. The passion seems to be eluding me. I have a goal this year to do a number of peaks, we'll see if I can get it done. If I know it's gonna take longer, I will have to be prepared for the consequences including calling it a day and turning back. That is the reality I don't like to admit. I'm just going to keep at it til I can't anymore. Simple as that!

Fortunately for me, I'm not a trail runner. I have noticed that my descents have taken longer, but that is due to the fact that I'm not in a hurry to get down unless I need to and that happens occasionally over a long career in the mountains. I also believe there is no reason to pound your joints unnecessarily. Every once in a great while I trip. My balance and agility is very good, but crap happens to the best of us. Falling downhill is not pleasant. I did some real doosies over the years! Pictures to prove it! I think the great Rienhold Mesner disdained running downhill.

[pbakwin]

I used to be a very good downhill technical runner. At age 64, I agree that the slowdown on downhill is much more apparent than the slowdown on ascending. Downhill running on rough terrain requires multiple factors which all deteriorate with age: eccentric strength, agility, balance, response time, and of course endurance as the day wears on. You can train some of those, maybe all, but it will only stave of the inevitable. For a reality check, it's interesting to look at data. A good trail running specific measure is the Dipsea race head start times. Dipsea is probably the oldest trail race in the USA (?) and is quite steep with many stairs. Runners get a head start based on age and gender, and the head starts are based on past results and so are empirical rather than theoretical, with a huge data set. A 25yo male gets zero head start, a 61yo male gets 12 minutes, and a 73yo male gets 24 min. IOW, the slow down from 61 to 73 is the same as from 25 to 61. (The winning times are maybe around 48 minutes for this 7.4 mile race) Yes, there are people (like my good friend Buzz, who finished top 10 at Dipsea in his 70s) who seem to defy aging, but eventually it catches up with everyone. "60 is the new 50, 70 is the new 60, but 80 is still 80." - Gerry Roach

https://www.dipsea.org/handicap.php