Satan’s Ridge in winter - A possibility?

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seano
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Re: Satan’s Ridge in winter — A possibility?

Post by seano »

jfm3 wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 4:58 pm This would be an astounding undertaking. Forget the ridge itself for a moment- just getting TO and FROM the ridge requires 1) a winter ascent of Capitol, which is a 2-day exercise by itself, and 2) a winter descent of Snowmass, which is probably an entire day on its own, even with snowshoes or skis to aid in the miles and miles of travel on low-angle terrain once you're off the mountain. You'd have to consider avalanche conditions on both Capitol and Snowmass, on at least 2 different days.

Now for the ridge itself. How many people have even looked at that dumb thing in the winter? I wonder if the rock on the true crest of the ridge is too steep to actually hold any snow- maybe all the snow just sloughs off. Perhaps the loose rock just below the crest would be more stable with snow, but you'd probably be climbing across very steep snow mixed with rock, all above huge exposure. What's the wind like up there? The ridge is completely exposed to the wind from both the east and west. Does the wind blow all the snow off, or does it make huge rime ice domes like Cerro Torre?

The team referenced above (oldschool, Steve, Noah and Kiefer) climbed the ridge in 2 different outings, and they were absolutely dialed in and moving well both days. The snow, ice, cold and wind in winter slow everything down, and winter only has 10 hours of daylight anyway, so you'd be climbing huge stretches of this route in the dark. Even if you could traverse the ridge in a single day while the sun was up (and if you could, pick up the phone and give Kilian a call- he's probably got some projects that would suit you), you'd probably have to climb Capitol overnight, to start the traverse at sunrise, and descend Snowmass in the dark, after at least 18 hours of "don't die" movement.

The location/length of the route and logistical difficulties of climbing in winter probably say no, this isn't a possibility.
Pretty much what he said.

I've done a few long fifth-class ridge traverses, but only in summer, and I had good first-person estimates of how long the approach and deproach would take. For the most technical (Evolution), I had scouted the entire thing in pieces. I'm not interested in doing this project myself, but I'd scout the whole thing in the summer first to get time estimates. It sounds like you've been out there in summer, so you might have some idea. I'd expect sugary winter snow to make the rock much worse, or at least slower, rather than holding it in place.

As for gear, you know your own feet. I've done plenty of winter stuff in trail runners, wool socks, and bread bags, but all car-to-car and mostly in good weather. Since the approach and deproach would be unfathomably miserable without skis (below treeline), you'd need to either carry those over the ridge (yikes!) or stash a pair at the end and leave one at the start (no bailing!). Either way, you'd at least have insulated, waterproof ski boots before and after.

I'd trust the math more than what internet randos say, but that means doing the math right.
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Re: Satan’s Ridge in winter - A possibility?

Post by gotpow »

Not sure if this is helpful but here’s a picture that captures a lot of the ridge with snowcover. This is from Garrett Peak (east of the ridge) in April 2023 which was a fairly big snow year for the Elks.



Image
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goingup
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Re: Satan’s Ridge in winter - A possibility?

Post by goingup »

Just a suggestion but maybe you should successfully complete the ridge in a less consequential season and a climb and decent of Capitol in winter before putting the entire thing together? Seems like its been a pretty dry season but the Elks got absolutely hammered with snow in early season and early December and there are some really spooky persistent slab problems lurking about. The West Elks have been down right scary, but they always are because no one cares about their existence. For this level of undertaking, your shoe choice seems questionable and I would think you would need to assume carrying enough to spend the night without freezing to death. I have climbed a few of the harder winter 14ers as 'day trips' *cough cough Wilson Peak in 17 hours* but not Capitol, however, I know a few who have done a winter Capitol and they are not just good but great climbers and some it took 2 or 3 attempts to make it up and down. It is a highly consequential winter peak. I don't know your climbing resume, so, I guess if you go for it, just understand that if you get into deep sh*t, it is going to be really hard for anyone to get you outta there. Just my two sense that means absolutely nothing. I am old, not bold, go for slowest known times, and always think about search and rescue first.
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Re: Satan’s Ridge in winter — A possibility?

Post by Jorts »

runningbuff wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 4:29 pm I haven’t decided whether the postholing and speed effort saved by approaching/descending on skis would be worth carrying them+boots across the ridge.
I'd approach on skis 100%. It's a small weight penalty carrying the boots versus the energy and time cost of post holing. And it'd be easier to just ski out assuming I'm understanding the route you're thinking about. Leave the skis near Pierre or Jackass Pass and then double back to them.

Can you throw up an image of your intended route on a map? Are you summiting Cap from Satan's or vice versa?

I'll go the opposite of many of the prior commenters and say that I think this is possible with sticky, stable snow and a clear cold day where everything is locked up. The risk wouldn't be acceptable to me but I think it's possible.
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14ercooper
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Re: Satan’s Ridge in winter - A possibility?

Post by 14ercooper »

Bit of a delayed comment - that ridgeline doesn't hold _a ton_ of snow on ridge proper in winter (once you make it up either Capitol or Snowmass), but does appear to hold quite a bit of ice. It's an extremely long day in summer, and a "dawn-dusk-dawn-dusk" style outing in the winter (if you don't bivy/camp). If you're interested in doing it in the winter, make sure you have your routes up both Capitol and Snowmass scouted in the summer, and possibly climb other ridgelines in the area (if not the ridge itself) including some winter climbs so you know how the rock/snow/ice all play together in the winter. But it _is_ possible in the winter, just extremely difficult and rather dangerous, taking quite a lot of good planning and is a serious test of skill.
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Re: Satan’s Ridge in winter — A possibility?

Post by Chrisfish25 »

Jorts wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 7:40 am
runningbuff wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 4:29 pm I haven’t decided whether the postholing and speed effort saved by approaching/descending on skis would be worth carrying them+boots across the ridge.
I'd approach on skis 100%. It's a small weight penalty carrying the boots versus the energy and time cost of post holing. And it'd be easier to just ski out assuming I'm understanding the route you're thinking about. Leave the skis near Pierre or Jackass Pass and then double back to them.

Can you throw up an image of your intended route on a map? Are you summiting Cap from Satan's or vice versa?

I'll go the opposite of many of the prior commenters and say that I think this is possible with sticky, stable snow and a clear cold day where everything is locked up. The risk wouldn't be acceptable to me but I think it's possible.
Agreeing with Brent here on all ends. Definitely possible but would be mega.

Skis are for sure the way to go. Snowshoes suck and are slow. The approach to capitol (and Snowmass) is long. When I climbed Capitol in the winter it took me 15 hours to out and back the same route. I wouldn't put myself anywhere near "elite skimo" category for speed, but I am on the quicker end. That said, a single push would be MEGA! But I could see it being completed in less than 24 hours without having to stash a bunch of unnecessary gear.

You've got my wheels spinning now. Ha!