Anyone climb/run/hike with a weighted pack?

[DoctorBreaks]

I'm in the, "I loathe heavy loads" camp, fer sure

Some things are worth the extra weight.... Can't leave the Tennessee Honey at home.

[Bill Cummings]

Bill, might you happen to have a link to the research suggesting supplemental weights are best used as a resistance training method? That's the type of info I'm looking for.

"Research" might too strong a term for it, but that was my conclusion from several Google searches I tried with terms like "weight vest benefits," "walking with ankle weights benefits," etc. If you can weed through the advertisements and skim some of the relevant articles, I think you will come to about the same conclusion that I did. Here are a couple of the search result links:

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_yl ... mp=yhs-003

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_yl ... mp=yhs-003

[madbuck]

I've been pleased to find myself carrying (and pushing) extra weight since our baby was born in August. Since I'm at home during the week as well, we get out pretty much every day for a stroller jog or a hike, and I'm able to compare fitness to previous years. I've been pleasantly surprised to feel pretty much the same -- slightly less short-distance speed, but actually more endurance and strength.

Before that, I thought about a weighted pack every once in awhile, or was slightly intrigued by friends training by dragging a tire(!), but never really did it, other than occasionally carrying more of my wife's stuff on hikes, or conservatively carrying more water (I gave out more than a liter on Long's on one hike) or a big camera or something. Even though I think there could be benefits if done correctly, I personally never could bring myself actually to bring extra *non-functional* weight because it felt too contrived! Although, in a way, having boards or snowshoes on your feet in winter (plus a backpack), for example, is also more weight but just felt less contrived. Otherwise, I just figured, given limited amount of time, I was too anxious to go farther and faster and see All The Things!

I think justiner summed some training ideas pretty well. In a way, fitness for endurance activities is often built by a combination of long, slow days; short, fast/hard days; steep, hilly days, and/or strength days; and possibly x-training. So I would think about going really heavy no more than a couple days a week (separated by at least 2 days), likely on something short or steep; going light/fast (no weight) some days; and going near your goal pack-weight and pace, roughly, most of the time for specificity. And mostly, whatever keeps you motivated and happy! Good luck and let us know what you observe.

[Sugar Madison]

I'm carrying more than enough extra weight in my gut and arse right now... no need for any more. Oye. Gotta lay off the beer.

[LadyClimber]

I agree with not carrying weight too often...can break you down as much as it could build you up. I typically do maybe 25ish pounds 3-4x month and if I have something big coming up I'll carry more once or twice in the weeks leading up to it. Steve H definitly stress long slow distance for building an aerobic base....just being out more in the mountains.

[justiner]

Great excerpt from the book:

http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/th ... teve-house" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've been re-re-re-reading it, myself. There's a great story from Tony Yaniro - a very strong climber/coach. He relates a story I thought was very relevant to climbing with a pack: when training for what sounds like a reality adventure race (something he himself says was sort of silly), he wanted to make his then climber body able to compete with some of the other contestants that were coming from a xc ski background - and he may be looking for a little bit of a shortcut with training in re: time.

So, he donned a heavy pack, and did workouts, hiking up mountains. In the race itself, he still couldn't beat the xc skiiers - they fly past him, breathing heavily, while he just hunkered behind, relatively comfortably. The takeaway is that he trained himself to work at the speed he was hiking, regardless of weight.

Now, since you're probably hiking with that pack still on (Tony didn't race the race with the heavy pack), that something to consider - you won't get faster just by carrying a heavier pack. You may find better results simply by doing your training at a faster pace, with a pack, or without.

I thought this was a great insight, since Yaniro is also known for putting pure strength on a pedestal - I mean, look at the guy in his prime! In technical climbing, strength can most often trump pure endurance, since if you can't pull the difficult/technical/strenuous move, there's no use for any endurance you may have for the rest of the route. (Steve's book does go into how strength training can fit into endurance training - getting all these puzzle pieces together is one of the best things about his book!)

I think the book is great, but maybe slightly irrelevant for most of the 14ers. I do think it's food for thought when it comes to the more technical/dangerous 14ers: one of the thing it stresses is that being in good good aerobic shape gives you a good source of endurance, when things go sour or unexpected.

[Dave B]

I think the book is great, but maybe slightly irrelevant for most of the 14ers. I do think it's food for thought when it comes to the more technical/dangerous 14ers: one of the thing it stresses is that being in good good aerobic shape gives you a good source of endurance, when things go sour or unexpected.

I think this is a really good point. The House/Johnson book is geared towards technically difficult, long and high altitude alpine climbing where whole-body aerobic and strength endurance need to hold out for days or weeks even. Following their book will certainly get you in great shape but it's overkill for the 14ers.

A much better book for training for the 14ers (at least I think) would be the Outdoor Athlete by Courtenay and Doug Schurman. They give specific training plans with aerobic and strength conditioning for trips much more similar to hiking 14ers.

Leg strength and some core strength are important but aerobic endurance is key - and that is built by spending lots of time in zone 1.

Also, I'm fat, so take the above FWIW.

[TomPierce]

I've read through this thread and, purely my opinion, I think there's a confusion of concepts going on. If you want to hike well, a single exercise (e.g. running, cycling, etc.) will get you in good enough shape. You'll have strong enough legs to muddle through, and probably pretty good aerobic capability. Good enough for the average outing, easy to schedule your training (Go run!), etc. But for those training for better performance or more extreme outings IMO you'll want to bifurcate the training between aerobics and strength training. Yes, there's some overlap, but for maximum performance IMO you need to focus on each component. You could be in great aerobic shape but humping a 60 lb pack for days on end requires some degree of strength to perform well vs. just muddling through. Similarly the person with tree stump legs that can carry super loads (or beer kegs…) up a mountain may not be the fastest or most aerobically fit. So IMO you need to give a nod to both, or perhaps try a hybrid system (Crossfit comes to mind, although I've read mixed results at the outer limits of performance).

Anyway, IMO using weights (pack, vest, whatever) is a strength training tool, not a aerobic-centered tool. Sure, some obvious overlap into aerobics but I wouldn't use that for pure aerobics or speed (for that the traditional base/AT/anaerobic intervals system seems effective). But nor would I use pure aerobics and then be surprised that I was wiped out after a multi-day trip humping a mega pack.

I used the weighted pack training (coupled with pure aerobics!) before I went to Denali. FWIW the way I did it was to buy one of those 5 gallon jugs, fill with water going up a 14er, then dump the water on the summit to save my knees on the descent. Seemed to work for me.

I know training methods are somewhat controversial, these are just my opinions.

-Tom

[adamjm]

I remember in Ed Viesturs book he talked about weighted training a bit and how beneficial it was to him since running wasn't cutting it. I'm not gonna hunt through the book to find the quote but there is an article that sums it up:

Last year, Viesturs noticed a chiseled bodybuilder staring at him in the gym. The stranger approached him. “Ed, you are wasting your time,” he declared in a thick Scandinavian accent. “Let me help you.” The blunt weightlifter turned out to be Ubbe Liljeblad, an elite 39-year-old bodybuilder-turned-personal trainer. Impressed by Liljeblad’s nerve, physique, and training philosophy, Viesturs let the 5’11” Swede replace his generic free-weight program with a regimen that emphasizes core and trail-specific exercises. In one, for example, Viesturs moves a medicine ball down and across his body. It’s no coincidence that’s the same motion he uses to pull his pack on and off hundreds of times during a climb. Liljeblad also added four 60-minute stair-climber sessions per week (sometimes wearing an 80-pound pack) to Viesturs’s 7 miles of almost daily running. The result: more strength and stamina. “I was so solid on Annapurna,” says Viesturs. “I could move a lot of weight around without taxing myself.”

Like others have said, a mix of functional strength and endurance are needed. I can rep out a lot of weight on squats at the gym, but my marathoner fiancee is a hell of a lot faster than me in the mountains. Although I don't suppose it helps that I'm built like Grimace.

Grimace.jpg

[akoller]

I think you train for the weight you are going to carry. If you need to haul 50 lbs up 10k of elevation then it's a good idea to get used to a 50 lb pack. Whenever I carry an extra heavy load I notice it in my back the most and training definitely helps with back strength/endurance.

[peter303]

I did so involuntarily during my kollege years. I could only afford the heavy equipment then.

[herdbull]

I wouldn't worry too much about the weight or how much of it you are carrying unless you are planning a bigger trip where you will be carrying heavy loads. I have met people that the first time they carried 50+lbs was on a big hike. Probably not a good idea. On a week long trip or 2 week trip to find out "this sucks and is heavy" can lead to a miserable time. So kudos for at least knowing what to expect.

I do mix it in my normal training routine so the body remembers what it's like though. I even built a pulk this winter for training purposes. Just to see what it's like and keep the training interesting. Leading up to a big trip I will up the pack training but for most 14ers I've gone the other way and go ultra light and more cardio or higher heart rate. If it weren't for water I'd be under 6-7lbs for most 14ers. Pack or running vest weight included.

I strength train 5 days a week and mix in run days. Some days I sub heavy pack training for running. Does it help the day to day stuff???, eehhhhhh... who really knows. But it gets me outside testing gear, exploring and just having fun. Practice like you play so to speak. Then again, the load I carried on Aconcagua was probably 80'ish lbs. I go a whopping 140lbs on a good day with a tail wind. It really wasn't horrible. Fun?? not totally. But because of my year round pack training I managed.

If I had to lean towards which is better for 14ers, heavy pack training or cardio. I'd go with cardio and working your HR in your upper limits.