Windom now an “Easy Class 3”

[TT4life]

Fully support the update based on my experience, but I admit we probably were a bit off route and had some snow. Just curious when the change happened and what was the rationale.

[JerJerBinks]

He must've changed it this past week when he dropped a conditions report on it. I personally stayed what seemed to me was a bit climbers right and higher than the standard or "easiest" way up from the saddle and was describing it as Weminuche class 2. In the new description it calls the summit block as easy 3 and it's probably not wrong.

[BillMiddlebrook]

Yeah, I felt it was so borderline that it was best to just change it to an Easy Class 3 rating. I've climbed it a number of times and have gone back and forth on this decision. After climbing it this weekend, I felt it was indeed best to change it. The change will now propagate through to the mobile apps for those preparing for their upcoming climbs.

Oh, and I updated the route descriptions for Sunlight and Windom to further emphasize—with additional text and photos—the best "connector" line between these two peaks. Once again, I saw people dropping off the top of Windom and descending the north face. We could hear the rockfall as we descended Windom's ridge.

[Kiefer]

Oh, and I updated the route descriptions for Sunlight and Windom to further emphasize—with additional text and photos—the best "connector" line between these two peaks. Once again, I saw people dropping off the top of Windom and descending the north face. We could hear the rockfall as we descended Windom's ridge.

I wanted to say something on the other thread about this, but didn't. But the fact that people are using this "connector" and thinking it's a great shortcut is a classic example of social media 'influencer' (cough-cough) BS spreading bad and oft times, dangerous information. Does the connector work? Obviously yes. Is it the smartest decision? Absolutely not (for reasons I hope I don't need to go into). But if this rise in younger generations going off what 'social media' says and thinking they know better than generations that came before, SAR is going to be wiped out. The 'easy' descent gully on Capitol is an example. Also, the 'Brain Donor' teenagers from New Jersey who had to be rescued off Franconia Ridge in New Hampshire last week might get charged the full cost of their rescue. When I was up on Snowdon couple weeks back, looking down Naked Lady Couloir, I can't believe people have attempted to climb it when dry. I applaud those who have the temerity to call others out for reckless behavior. Because if SAR isn't going to take steps to charge for rescues that defy logic, then maybe peers can get through to people. And I've been on both sides of that fence (on the receiving end, the giving end AND participated in SAR calls). I get the sense, that the rise of social media has made for a more reckless, thoughtless and "come what may" environment. Seeing someone post a bad-ass video somehow equates into a standardization of skill for the masses. Maybe I'm off on that, but I don't know how else to say it.

I've seen a lot of 'hero' vids on Instagram that just make me want to puke. One video on IG touted the ridge direct from the Daly Saddle straight to K2 as being the standard/normal way to access Capitol. That ridge is one of the spiciest C4+/C5 climbs I've ever done. Extreme exposure (worse than the knife edge). And for someone 'not knowing' or claiming they didn't have enough information if injuries or rescue should arise, go back to anno 1654. We live in a glut of information that's held daily in our hands. 'Not knowing' doesn't work anymore. Sadly, 'not caring'...does.

I don't know how or when this purveying, underline reasoning started with newer generations that, just because something 'can' be done, doesn't mean it should be. I'm all for pushing the envelope and see what professionals can do to break records (it is exciting). Check out ANY edition of Alpinist magazine. But the status quo for the Gen Pop. is getting to be so high, that safety & rational thought are being ignored. And the fact that people in general don't like to be called out (we wouldn't want to impinge on someone else's idea of 'fun' or individualism would we?) is a weak validation for lack of common sense or reasoning.

There was a girl who put up a conditions report on Little Bear here just a couple weeks ago as she climbed LB and the traverse in a freaking downpour! Actively storming, rockfall and water running down the Hourglass. She should have died; and I stand by that sentiment. Again, can it be done? Sure. Should it? Probably not. That report has since been taken down by the author because a few of us jumped on her. Valid excuses for 'not knowing' don't really exist anymore. Same for people receiving tickets for campfires during stage-II restrictions. The theme is still the same.

I don't know, Bill. Would it be prudent to have some kind of byline or warning (in addition to what you already have), addressing some of this? I don't want to see people get injured or die anymore than anyone else. But if I'm being honest, all this 'hero-drivel' lately, is weirdly desensitizing me to accidents. And that's not something I ever thought I'd see or experience. Has anyone else experienced this? And really, it all comes down to context.

[Jorts]

Seems this update was warranted. There was a fatal fall on Windom in 2022 and one in 2012 also. This standard route gets underestimated.

PS Hope I didn't ruffle your feathers by commenting that connecting Windom to Sunlight without fully descending Windom is a reasonable option, Kiefer.

[Kiefer]

Seems this update was warranted. There was a fatal fall on Windom in 2022 and one in 2012 also. This standard route gets underestimated.

PS Hope I didn't ruffle your feathers by commenting that connecting Windom to Sunlight without fully descending Windom is a reasonable option, Kiefer.

Nah, not at all! Some people have da skillz to descend safely, others don't. It's those who think they can by watching or reading about others doing it then ending up with a sprained ankle, broken tib/fib or worse.
When safety is in question, increasing a route's difficulty is probably a good thing to do (like with Windom). The LCD should be taken into account when grading routes. Technical or not.

[jfm3]

I don't know, Bill. Would it be prudent to have some kind of byline or warning (in addition to what you already have), addressing some of this? I don't want to see people get injured or die anymore than anyone else. But if I'm being honest, all this 'hero-drivel' lately, is weirdly desensitizing me to accidents. And that's not something I ever thought I'd see or experience. Has anyone else experienced this? And really, it all comes down to context.

There has been an astounding amount of interest, on this forum, the 14ers Facebook page and Instagram in general, about Satan's Ridge in the last 2 years. People are out of their damn minds. Tragedy is guaranteed on that route if people keep going up there. Somebody is going to fall to their death while trying to Alex Honnold their way over the Gate/Horns.

[cottonmountaineering]

I don't know, Bill. Would it be prudent to have some kind of byline or warning (in addition to what you already have), addressing some of this? I don't want to see people get injured or die anymore than anyone else. But if I'm being honest, all this 'hero-drivel' lately, is weirdly desensitizing me to accidents. And that's not something I ever thought I'd see or experience. Has anyone else experienced this? And really, it all comes down to context.

There has been an astounding amount of interest, on this forum, the 14ers Facebook page and Instagram in general, about Satan's Ridge in the last 2 years. People are out of their damn minds. Tragedy is guaranteed on that route if people keep going up there. Somebody is going to fall to their death while trying to Alex Honnold their way over the Gate/Horns.

its a shame when accidents happen, but there isnt really any possible way to prevent this kind of stuff... i dont want colorado to turn into european style climbing where everything requires guides and permits

[Phill the Thrill]

Yeah, I felt it was so borderline that it was best to just change it to an Easy Class 3 rating. I've climbed it a number of times and have gone back and forth on this decision. After climbing it this weekend, I felt it was indeed best to change it. The change will now propagate through to the mobile apps for those preparing for their upcoming climbs.

This is a good move - for one thing, a lot of people equate "class 3" with "I should bring my helmet".

[Gulf_Coast_Hiker]

This is a good move - for one thing, a lot of people equate "class 3" with "I should bring my helmet".

I'm sorry if this is a very stupid question, but should one have a helmet on all class 3 and above routes? Or is it route dependent, such as loose/unstable gullies?''

Yes, asking for a friend.

[BillMiddlebrook]

Yes. For rockfall, falls, or just overhang bonks while scrambling

[Gulf_Coast_Hiker]

Yes. For rockfall, falls, or just overhang bonks while scrambling

Perfect, thanks, Bill!!