Some conditioning questions for an older athlete

[LarryM]

I'll start by laying out my specific situation. This is more a trail running conditioning question (or questions) than mountaineering; apologies in advance if that is a problem. Me:

-63 years old;
-very strong base fitness;
-I've lost a little bit of speed on the uphills as I've gotten older, but that loss has been gratifyingly gradual. I'm still quite fast on the uphills for my age (though not quite at the level of some of the monster athletes my age who climb these Colorado hills). See, e.g., my climb time for Uncompahgre last summer (which of course includes the downhill that I was characteristically slow on);
-but I've lost a LOT of speed on the downhills & flats. Mainly rocky downhills and flats. Some perspective: just yesterday, "running" Royal Arch, I was faster on the uphill than on the downhill. Not relatively faster, faster period;
-I've also lost quite a bit of endurance.

Now, I've studied all of this exhaustively, and have some insight into what I've been doing wrong / need to work on. Frankly a big problem is I'd rather just get out on the trails & pile on the vert rather than do some of the unfun things that I should be doing. But I'm posting here to see if anyone has some insights that I've missed.

Stuff I should be doing:

-flexibility, flexibility, and more flexibility. Note that my muscles are unusually tight, calves especially. Obviously flexibility is helpful in running comfortably and avoiding injury (and in my case, hopefully getting past low level but still problematic chromic left achilles tendonitis). But I'm so tight that I think it's also slowing me down on the rocky downhills;
-work on balance;
-more focus on running the downhills in training, as opposed to easing up;
-more long runs (I've left this slide a bit in the last 2 years);
-work on my core;
-maybe - maybe - more rest. I tend to run 6 days a week, hike with my partner on the 7th. But honestly my body seems to hold up fine with this. My injuries (a badly sprained ankle at the beginning of July; the chronic achilles tendonitis) are IMO not related to lack of rest, but rather either one-off injuries from falling (the ankle) or chronic issues from lack of flexibility (the achilles);
-lose weight (I'm about 10 pounds overweight), though honestly this probably wouldn't help much on my problem areas, it would just make my uphills even faster.

A lot of this is the usual stuff that tends to be ignored or downplayed as we want to spend our fitness time doing the fun stuff. But am I missing anything? Again, focus on an older athlete.

At the beginning of the year, in the "2023 goals" thread, one of my goals was to come to terms with the inevitable loss of speed & fitness as I get older. But I've recently come to the realization that, for most of my issues, age is just an excuse. Most of this should be fixable.

(Also the question could be asked, why do I care? Mainly so I can at least sort of keep up with my younger / faster friends.)

[timisimaginary]

what is your HR or exertion level on downhills vs uphills? if your HR is lower on downhills, but your times are slower, then it shouldn't be a conditioning issue.

it could be more of a confidence or fear issue. falling downhill is a lot scarier and more painful/riskier than falling uphill. speaking as someone who is very conservative myself on downhill running, especially in more technical (in trail running terms) terrain, i know the fear of injury or a fall holds me back. i see these 20 year olds bombing down trails that i'm forced to walk on because i'm continually thinking of what could happen with just a single missed step or trip on a rock. and when you're just training, you don't want to injure yourself running something recklessly while training if it might jeopardize more important goals like a race or big goal of some kind.

i've noticed myself getting more conservative too as i get older, and also after a couple falls that fortunately didn't result in major injury but put into my head the idea of how much worse it could have been. and personally i'm ok with that, because i'm not threatening anybody on the podium at any of my races, so remaining healthy and able to run consistently is more important to me than being fast downhill. if i was younger, and fitter, and time goals were more important to me, then maybe i'd take more risks and let it go more.

one thing that sometimes helps is using poles. i've found that i feel more comfortable running downhill with poles, once you get used to using them properly in a downhill running context. having additional points of balance, as well as taking some of the load off my legs, have both been helpful.

besides the mental side, i think downhill running involves more agility, so working on agility drills may be helpful. fast feet drills can help because you need faster turnover to maintain speed downhill.

[Flyingfish]

I feel like for me and the other people I know the speed on the downhill especially techy/loose requires confidence and agility. Strengthening your ankles and improving your balance probably remedies both of those pretty well. The better you move gives you confidence that you wont fall and if you are confident in your movement then you move better. Its kinda a give an take between those two. Some friends I have can crush my on the up and flat but they are not confident descending loose so I fly past them on the down. You probably have pointed out what you need to do already its just doing.

[LarryM]

Thanks guys. I definitely think that I could benefit from agility drills. Regarding the poles, I had been using them for the first time consistently while recovering from my sprained ankle, but stopped once I recovered from that. Sounds like I should practice with them more on the downhills.

what is your HR or exertion level on downhills vs uphills? if your HR is lower on downhills, but your times are slower, then it shouldn't be a conditioning issue.

HR / exertion on rocky downhills is much less than on uphills, so I agree that it isn't a conditioning issue. Maybe I should have titled the post differently. Also, on a smooth downhill I can run decently fast, more evidence that it's not a conditioning issue per se.

personally i'm ok with that, because i'm not threatening anybody on the podium at any of my races, so remaining healthy and able to run consistently is more important to me than being fast downhill. if i was younger, and fitter, and time goals were more important to me, then maybe i'd take more risks and let it go more.

The issue here for me is that (aside from the "running with younger friends" issue), I am having trouble making cut offs at races*, and feel like I need to at least somewhat get speed back on the downhill to do so. Though endurance / long runs is an issue there as well.

But yes, it is a trade off - and the risk of falling is definitely holding me back on the rocky downhills.

*Though my latest "failure" in that regard, the Never Summer 60K, there were other factors in play - still recovering from my sprained ankle and having to run in borrowed, worn out running shoes with no cushioning and no tread. Don't ask.

[nmjameswilson]

Balance and flexibility can be greatly improved by doing P90X Yoga. I do it a few times in advance of my yearly trips to Colorado and it really helps especially on higher class stuff.

[Dave B]

[broken record] strength training [/broken record]

[LarryM]

[broken record] strength training [/broken record]

I appreciate the suggestion, and it's good advice, especially for the older athlete. But for my specific issues, I think strength training right now is not the most efficient use of my time (except for my ankles, and that's not really conventional strength training anyway). Note that my legs are pretty strong already; that's one reason that I'm still strong on the uphills (in a sense, my "strength training" is simply doing a ton of vert, over 280,000 feet so far this year, even with interruptions for a sprained ankle and Covid). Collating the advice above & my own research / knowledge of my body, I'm going to put together a program which encompasses:

-flexibility
-core
-balance
-agility, and
-ankle strength

Some of this overlaps to an extent. Yoga probably would help with several of those - the P90x version or otherwise. I might go in that direction.

After I see some results from that, I may scale some of it back & add in some strength work.

Thanks again all for the advice.

[Dave B]

-flexibility
-core
-balance
-agility, and
-ankle strength

Doing a ton of vert with stride mechanics that compensate for weakness and poor mobility is only going to reinforce the movement patterns that created the problem in the first place.

Things like Bulgarian split squats and one leg deadlifts with a weight in one hand will improve flexibility, core strength, balance, agility, and ankle strength. I promise if you do these daily for a couple of weeks, you will see big improvements. Start with body weight and add small increments of weight as you get stronger.

The McGill Big-3 are a great set of core exercises to compliment single leg strength/mobility exercises.
https://squatuniversity.com/2018/06/21/ ... stability/

[LarryM]

-flexibility
-core
-balance
-agility, and
-ankle strength

Doing a ton of vert with stride mechanics that compensate for weakness and poor mobility is only going to reinforce the movement patterns that created the problem in the first place.

Things like Bulgarian split squats and one leg deadlifts with a weight in one hand will improve flexibility, core strength, balance, agility, and ankle strength. I promise if you do these daily for a couple of weeks, you will see big improvements. Start with body weight and add small increments of weight as you get stronger.

The McGill Big-3 are a great set of core exercises to compliment single leg strength/mobility exercises.
https://squatuniversity.com/2018/06/21/ ... stability/

Thanks. I may try to incorporate some of this (certainly the McGill core exercises). A big issue is that I don't want to try to do too much; I want a program I can stick with. Also I need to focus on my biggest weakness, which is flexibility.

[Jorts]

You're missing your diet.

It becomes a more important consideration with age. That's why a 25 year old can get away with eating like s**t and still be fit while so many older guys that eat the same as when they were 25 are walking around with beer guts.

Eat food. Mostly plants. Not too much.

Brent

[timisimaginary]

if you can get past the paywall, this article has some good tips (mostly focusing on the mental side):

https://www.trailrunnermag.com/training ... l-running/

[justiner]

I was listening to a rando podcast - maybe Uphill Athlete - who knows? And they were talking about how wall sits massively helped their speed and endurance on running downhills. I couldn't see the connection until two days ago, where I was trying to go downhill as fast as possible with a heavy load. Instead of bombing down the hill while running, I was always slightly bending my knees and smoothing out all the bumps and sort of glide walking with intent down the hills. With the weight, this seemed the more efficient way to go downhill, while saving my quads. And the effort felt just like a wall sit to my core. So wall sits are now in my workout. Maybe add those to yours too