Do Harnesses Really Expire?

[Matt]

If you wish the TL:DR or don't want to read the back story, you might skip the middle paragraph below.

My girlfriend's ex was a mountain warfare instructor in the 10th Mountain Division. They're obviously no longer together, but a lot of his stuff is in my garage now.
Today, she found his gear bag with climbing shoes, 'biners, and an Arc'Teryx harness. I'm stoked, even if the shoes and harness don't fit me.
He was "Andyouseeme" tall. I am "Monster 5" tall. No go. I can use the 'biners.
The harness was made in 2008 and used only one climbing season, during which he climbed on only six outings in summer. It was stored in controlled temps and well-cared for.
I inspected it, paying specific attention to the tie in points and areas where I'd expect to see wear and tear. Other than a bunch of chalk, it looks essentially new, lacking even scuffing. If it fit me, I might ask someone I trust to check it, and keep it for myself. It doesn't, and she wants to sell it.
However, she looked at the manual and sees that Arc'T has given it it a retirement date of no longer than seven years from manufacture date, regardless of the quantity or type of use.

She doesn't want to sell it and be responsible for or held accountable for it breaking and cites the similar magic dating on car seats for kids as an example of how this could be problematic. I wouldn't either, and recognize that cutting corners on a harness makes no sense unless getting down really, really fast is the intent.
Making things "Like they used to, to last," isn't what people do any more in most cases.
It's easier to drive the economy this way than to come up with new ideas and/or products. As a pharmacist, I am more than cynical about the expiration dates pharma provides, as more pills mean more profits, and recent data have emerged that show drugs from the 1950s still hold 90% of their potency. I simply don't trust manufacturers to be honest about this.
Using the mighty Google, I find various guidelines and interpretations in this realm. Some groups (not manufacturers) involved in rescue, climbing, etc., say 10 years is reasonable if the harness is lightly used and well cared for.

So, my questions to those of you who use their harnesses more than a few times a year (like me):
How legitimate is this expiration date in this case? How valid are these in general? Would you use this harness if it looked good to you, as it does to me?
I appreciate any insight here.

[TallGrass]

Dates are liability based (err on conservative side). Think how much sun nylon seatbelts get. Inspect both the stitching and material bound. Aside from wear, three things that degrade nylon are heat, UV, and chemicals. After X years, there are just too many variables so makers round down to a date. Lots of old harnesses on ebay, fyi.

[pbakwin]

Today I top rope soloed & rapped on a harness (& rope) I've had since the 1980s. Seems fine, but I don't know if I'd lead on it.

[TomPierce]

Matt: I'll give a multi-tiered answer, all based solely on my opinions.

I use a harness all the time. I've retired 2 in the last 3 months, one was a "workhorse" all-around harness by Metolius, the other a BD Couloir harness. Both were just worn out in spots (note that the worn out parts weren't critical load-bearing parts, only rear seat risers and attachment points). But my philosophy is that if part of a harness is so worn as to be non-functional, why debate retirement from a safety perspective? Err on the side of safety and retire it all.

But you raise the issue in the context of near ideal storage, with minimal use. Personally I agree that manufacturers have a vested interest in early/routine retirement, I get your concern. So, to your question, would I use it? Eh, probably...but 10 years is out there. Even if I would, I'd only do it if I bought and stored the harness in the first place. I just don't like buying used climbing soft goods, the history is unknown (but hypocrisy alert: I'll use another's rope when I'm out, without having 100% certainty of the rope's history). Hard goods I'm generally OK with, but would probably even resling a used cam. But that's just me, others may disagree.

Finally, the recovering lawyer in me would be remiss if I didn't mention the possible risk in selling/gifting a harness past the manufacturer's use-by date. Do I think such a harness would just self-destruct? NO. But might an injured other make a silly argument to that effect? Far more likely, beware.

Just my opinions, I'm looking forward to this debate.

-Tom

[polar]

Personal opinion here, but the short answer is no, harness does not expire if stored properly. The 7-year expiration date imposed by the manufacturer is mostly to guard against liability. If I’m 100% sure that harness hasn’t had any chemical contamination, and it passes visual inspection (acceptable level of wear, no color fading), then I would have no problem using it. Even the 10-year recommendation seems a bit conservative to me (again, personal opinion).

On the other hand, I personally will not buy soft gear (ropes, slings, dog bones, harness, etc) second hand if my life depends on it. The reason is that it is virtually impossible to know if the soft gear has been contaminated by chemicals, other than just take the words of the seller. Some chemical contamination may leave visual clues, some may not. I will not bet my life on that, especially when we’re talking about a couple hundred dollars tops.

Here are a few interesting tests done by Black Diamond Quality Control Lab.
Chemical contaminated harness:
http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/qc- ... rness.html

Old gear vs. new gear (a 20-year-old rope was tested):
http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/ ... ar-testing

Strength of belay loop:
http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/qc- ... loops.html

[FireOnTheMountain]

I would agree with Tom....its probably OK to use especially since you said you meticulously eyed all the stitching but how are you certain that it was always well stored, you know?

I wouldn't take the chance personally. I know its a dead bird harny so it cost him his 1st mortgage payment but just get a cheaper one man. The world needs as many "Monster5" in-stature people out there (less the shatting perhaps).

Can we go back to ripping on American healthcare....loved that bit.

EDIT: Interesting links there polar but to call a harness sun faded from being in a display window is borderline stupid. Have the folks at BD heard of the desert? Would have provided a much more interesting case study although the rope test was still useful.

[Mike Shepherd]

Do harnesses expire? Yes

It's doubtful that the actual time it takes to happen is just 10 years, especially in the condition you describe.

It's even more doubtful though anyone will basically store an unused harness long enough to remember or care to test it at 15 or 20 years or beyond. Even then I feel things like that set bad precedent, encouraging those less sure of the history of the 14 year old harness to just tie in.

Also I really don't care to tie in with a harness made in 2000 or earlier even if it is still good. The gear now is so much better than what it used to be. In 20 years I'm sure it will be even better.

[Matt]

Thanks, all.
Tom P and Peter B--I was hoping either of you, let alone both, would see this. I appreciate the length of your experience and depth of your perspectives, esp wrt the unfortunate potential for a jury of our peers to be easily convinced of a shaky assertion in a courtroom and the 'hypocrisy' of not buying used gear but trusting strange ropes. I think we have all been 'guilty' of this. I have.
Polar--Your take on this mirrors mine in both the expiration date and buying used soft gear, which is good to hear. Thanks for the links, too. I'd been avoiding any manu sites, but found some interesting things in those.
TG-That's spot on from my point of view and there are a lot of old harnesses on ebay right now. Is that because people don't think about this topic?
Abe--I was hoping to get a little more harassment of Aaron and Ryan, but I'll take what I can get.
Mike S-We're also in agreement on the likelihood of it breaking.
Overall, what I think I'm hearing is: it probably won't break/isn't "expired," but people wouldn't buy it themselves and the legal risk can't be ruled out in this day and age.
I agree.
My gf is mulling all this over...
Thank you.

[TallGrass]

TG-That's spot on from my point of view and there are a lot of old harnesses on ebay right now. Is that because people don't think about this topic?

People sell to get cash, and I see nothing wrong with selling things like old harnesses or gear so long as it is properly represented because there are other reasons they might buy it besides climbing outdoors such as a training aid in a classroom setting, a display, or a collection. You have to know more about cars (or find someone who does), where to look, what to inspect, and so on to make a good buy on a used one versus just buying a new one and why some just always do the latter.

[Voshkm]

I am not an expert on Mountaineering equipment. I do work in the safety industry with construction. In our industry Harnesses most definitely Expire. It is not only an issue of warn stitching, the issue is the fibers themselves lose strength. Additionally after a harness arrests some ones fall it needs to be removed from service possibly sent back to factory for recertification. Buying used harnesses is gambling with your life. That said there is inherent risk in climbing, driving, or getting out of bed. One must remember that the purpose of the certified rating of a harness is not about the 99th percentile of usage but rather that 1% where your life actually depends on it functioning at its highest potential. A 200lb man falling 10ft with 6 inches of deceleration (rope stretching) produces 2400lbs of force on the Harness. If you choose to accept that risk the 1% may never come into play but then why have the harness at all? To look professional? Just a perspective. Stay safe everyone.

[Traveler]

As far as selling a used harness goes, the key is making full disclosure to the buyer (preferably in an email that you keep a copy of), so that they know (1) how old it is, and (2) that it was owned by someone else (i.e., outside of your control) for some period of time, during which you can't say for sure how it was used or stored. If you disclose all of that to the buyer, it would be much more difficult for them to come after you later.

[TomPierce]

Yes, to hop into lawyer-mode, there is disclaiming language from Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code that should help minimize legal risk, e.g., the good is sold without any warranties, express or implied, user assumes all risk of use, blah, blah. I use that language for some of the things I've sold on this site, fwiw.

-Tom