Nolan's 14

[andrewhamilton]

I was driving through buena vista today around 4:00 pm. There was a big nasty storm sitting on top of Yale at the time. I think they were up there at the same time. I hope it did not demoralize them. I'd like to see them complete Princeton by 8:00am, that would give them 10 hours to finish the last three tomorrow. I sure hope to see them moving up Princeton soon!

[MrJohnnySpot]

Looks like they topped out on Princeton about 5:05. On to the last 3!

[thebeave7]

They are descending off Princeton now. As Andrew said it would be ideal for them to be at the base of Baldwin Gulch Rd by 8am, but that doesn't look likely. They need to finish by 6pm today for the 60h time, but there is some debate over whether the clock stocks at the last summit or the last TH, I personally believe it should be TH (makes more sense), but its debated.

The range of times for these last three peaks are from 8h-12h depending on how spunky one feels, so they've got a fighters chance, but gotta keep moving. I hope they finish regardless of time.

Eric

[GreenHorn]

I know there has been some confusion about where the clock stops, and I think, Eric, you mentioned that Blake had indicated at one point that it was the finish. However, from Matt's original course description, this doesn't seem ambiguous:

Nolan's 14 Course Description

This route describes the Nolan's 14 course going north to south, although it may be run in either direction. The start is at the Fish Hatchery near Leadville, and the finish is at Blank Cabin about 2 miles north of the Angel of Shavano campground on the Colorado Trail, with a time limit of 60 hours to the last summit. The red line on the maps below shows the most popular route, but any route is allowed. Black lines show crew/aid access routes.

http://mattmahoney.net/nolans14/maps/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This indicates that while the "course" runs from TH to TH, the time limit applies only to the last summit. I also think Matt confirmed this after Andrew's unsupported run.
I Hope these ladies keep moving - it may be close.

[thebeave7]

Yes but logically Matt's description doesn't make much sense. Is any summit attempt done once you reach the top? Can you really start/finish the John Muir Trail on top of Mt Whitney, how do you get down?

I know what Matt's site says, and that's where the disagreement comes in, several of us who have been involved over the years believe the clock should stop when you are actually done (at the TH), its by far the most logical thing, but of course not everyone thinks that.
I also don't agree with the 14er record starting/finishing 3000ft below the first/last summit, but CaveDog set the record, he set the rules, and to make things comparable that's what it is. Interestingly, CaveDog made the rules after he set the record, stating that the record holder gets to define the rules (within reason), but Matt has never finished Nolans and even within that group there is some debate over the finish line.

Eric

[pbakwin]

TH finish makes the most sense. Nolan's can clearly be done in either direction. Stopping the clock on the last summit makes it completely different whether you go north or south.

[Broken Knee]

Stopping the clock on the last summit makes it completely different whether you go north or south.

But the clock stops at the TH - the 60 hour limit applies to the last summit.

[pcrotty41]

Well, I guess the easiest way to settle the time question would be to look up the known and recorded times of Nolan's 14 finishers and note if their times stopped at the top of Shavano or at the Angel of Shavano TH...

[thebeave7]

Well, I guess the easiest way to settle the time question would be to look up the known and recorded times of Nolan's 14 finishers and note if their times stopped at the top of Shavano or at the Angel of Shavano TH...

We all list both times because we can't agree on the answer

Eric

[andrewhamilton]

According to Matt, nolans 14 originally started as a "how many peaks can you complete in 60 hours" race. It was years before anyone completed the course trailhead to trailhead. So originally it makes sense that it was the time to the last summit completed that mattered. Now I think most people are trying for under 60 TH to TH -- including myself on my epic 19 minute fail last year

But in the end who really cares? I mean this isn't a 100 mile ultra with a cutoff time. Anyone can go do it and your time is what it is...it's not like it won't be recorded if you don't make 60 hours.

Either way the girls have done amazing and I hope the morning sun rejuvenates them so they can finish strong!

[GreenHorn]

I don't disagree with you guys as far as what makes sense in 2015 with the way mountain running and FKTs have evolved. Eric, I think you are mostly responsible for the renewed interest in this route, so your opinion on the matter is certainly significant. But, I'm not willing to discount Matt's definition just because he wasn't a finisher. I think if you look at how the route came to be and the original question "how many 14ers can you link-up in a single push?", you could see where it was the summit time that may have been most relevant. From the beginning, the results were listed by number of summits, then time to the last summit.

Maybe there are two standards here.
- Official finishers must reach the summit within 60 hrs as defined in the course rules
- FKTs are measured TH to TH for sake of comparison

In which case, I guess everyone should keep listing both times.

Looks like they just hit Alpine. Keep it up!

[John Paul]

Hey it looks like they just rolled into Alpine a few minutes ago. According to Andrew's numbers it'll take 7 hours to Shavano and 9 hours to Blank Gulch. Eric it looks like it took you 10 hours to get from Alpine to Shavano and 11.5 hours to get to Blank Gulch. They have around 9 hours left to get under 60. It's going to be real close. Go Team Frosty and Missy! jp