Devils Thumb Pass or Boulder Double Bypass Loop? Safety concern for Pawnee Pass

[PCT_Serge]

Hi All,

My friend and I are flying to Denver this Wed, May 10th. We want to be out for two nights in the wild and do some hiking/mountaineering in the region. Weather forecast looks great.

I have narrowed down my research to Devils Thumb Pass/King Lake Loop (29Mi) and Boulder Double Pass Loop (25.2Mi). I would hate to bite more then I can chew, therefore seeking your advice.

1. Based on Topo info, Pawnee Pass looks like it could require crampons/rope? Has anyone done the loop in mid May? Would an Ice Axe and Snowshoes be enough? http://www.backpacker.com/trips/straddl ... tal-divide

2. If Boulder Double Pass loop, is out of our league, is it worth considering Devils Thumb Pass/King Lake Loop? I see that both of the passes seem fairly gradual? Please correct me if i'm wrong? https://www.alltrails.com/explore/trail ... lake-trail

Experience: My friend does not have a lot of winter mountaineering experience, nor had a chance to use crampons in the past, therefore we're only bringing snowshoes and Ice Axes. I have moderate mountaineering experience (I've taken mountaineering courses and climbed Mt.Washington, Mt.Marcy, Mt.Kathadin in the winter many times and I also thru-hiked PCT). We're both runners and in good physical shape, early 30s.

Should we even consider doing any of the loops, or we would be asking for trouble?

Thank you in advance for your responses.

-Serge

[justiner]

So, lot of snow up there. Kinda think ski touring would be the best idea, but travel after 10am or so would kinda stink as the snow will get soft in the sun and there is potential for wet slide activity. You'll be moving slow. Doing either of these loops wouldn't be my personal choice, really. Snowshoeing isn't my favorite to begin with, though, so maybe I'm biased.

[AlexeyD]

What Justiner said.

Also, all of these passes are likely to have cornices guarding their east sides. It may or may not be possible to avoid these, but just something to be aware of.

Oh, and then:

Weather forecast looks great

Hmm, I must be missing something: http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.ph ... REc4eXytPY

[PCT_Serge]

So, lot of snow up there. Kinda think ski touring would be the best idea, but travel after 10am or so would kinda stink as the snow will get soft in the sun and there is potential for wet slide activity. You'll be moving slow. Doing either of these loops wouldn't be my personal choice, really. Snowshoeing isn't my favorite to begin with, though, so maybe I'm biased.

Thanks for a swift reply!

I don't think we will be trying to pack any serious miles. Perhaps 10 miles a day would be a fair bet in snowshoes.

My initial thought was to camp at the King Lake. Get up super early and join the CDT all the way to the top of the ridge, eventually reaching Devils Thumb Lake in the afternoon (8-10 mile hike).

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9433791 ... a=!3m1!1e3 - based on what I see here, it doesn't look like the path is prone to an avalanche, perhaps there might some cornices along the way, but please correct me if i'm wrong. My only concern would the triggered wet avalanches on a descend down to the Devils Thumb lake. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9690044 ... a=!3m1!1e3

Justiner - you mentioned that doing these loops wouldn't be your personal choice. Do you have any other recommendations? I would really appreciate any info or advice. I've hiked all around on the East Coast, Canadian Rockies and the Sierras, but it will be my first time in Colorado, so i'm fairly new to this region. I know May is a little to early, but I really wanted to experience the Rockies with the snow.

Cheers!

[PCT_Serge]

What Justiner said.

Also, all of these passes are likely to have cornices guarding their east sides. It may or may not be possible to avoid these, but just something to be aware of.

Oh, and then:

Weather forecast looks great

Hmm, I must be missing something: http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.ph ... REc4eXytPY

Hi Alexey!

Thanks for the reply! I've been monitoring the weather for couple days now, the window from Thursday morning until Sunday looks pretty good: https://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks ... casts/4083 - I believe this forecast might be a little more comprehensive.

I'm concerned if there are cornices, that might be a red flag for us.

Thanks,

[Eli Boardman]

Hi Alexey!

Thanks for the reply! I've been monitoring the weather for couple days now, the window from Thursday morning until Sunday looks pretty good: https://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks ... casts/4083 - I believe this forecast might be a little more comprehensive.

I'm concerned if there are cornices, that might be a red flag for us.

Thanks,

14+ inches of snow Wednesday is not going to be consolidated by Thursday morning...watch the CAIC page if you decide to go.

The go-to place that is often recommended for backpacking this time of year is the Lost Creek Wilderness. There's some really cool rock features and some nice peaks in that area, and it should be a lot drier (read: safer) than the higher peaks.

[SchralpTheGnar]

You should be able to avoid the cornices, most of the high alpine ridges have some spots of weakness where you can bypass cornices.

this time of year you will have the most enjoyable experience the earlier you are traveling. It's not uncommon to do a hike starting at 2am and being done for the day by 10am. It's so much more enjoyable cruising on frozen snow in cool temperatures. If it's sunny you won't believe how hot it will feel even if the temp is 50/60 degrees. Once the snow softens you will post hole even with snow shoes, not that it's impossible to make progress it'll just be miserable and not the fun type of miserable either.

Also, I would try to summit something, that will be much more rewarding than just a snow shoe loop, there are a decent number of peaks that are doable with just snow shoes in that area.

[PCT_Serge]

You should be able to avoid the cornices, most of the high alpine ridges have some spots of weakness where you can bypass cornices.

this time of year you will have the most enjoyable experience the earlier you are traveling. It's not uncommon to do a hike starting at 2am and being done for the day by 10am. It's so much more enjoyable cruising on frozen snow in cool temperatures. If it's sunny you won't believe how hot it will feel even if the temp is 50/60 degrees. Once the snow softens you will post hole even with snow shoes, not that it's impossible to make progress it'll just be miserable and not the fun type of miserable either.

Also, I would try to summit something, that will be much more rewarding than just a snow shoe loop, there are a decent number of peaks that are doable with just snow shoes in that area.

Thanks for your advice! That was my original intent, I wanted to wake up very early and hit the trail/passes while the snow is still crunchy. Yes, once in the while, miserable pot holing is an exercise that I am willing to accept if I have to

Do you know if many people backpack this route during early spring? Would it be possible to follow the packed trail at times or I shouldn't even count it? Currently, it looks like at 11-12 thousand feet, the area will get about 6-10 inches on Wed. This number has been decreasing in the past three days. It was showing 36 inches on Sunday morning.

Thank you,

[PCT_Serge]

14+ inches of snow Wednesday is not going to be consolidated by Thursday morning...watch the CAIC page if you decide to go.

The go-to place that is often recommended for backpacking this time of year is the Lost Creek Wilderness. There's some really cool rock features and some nice peaks in that area, and it should be a lot drier (read: safer) than the higher peaks.

Thank you Eli. I've considered the Lost Creek Wilderness. If things go South after Wednesday avalanche report, that will be the area we will end up hiking at.

[AlexeyD]

So, of the two options you suggested, I'd say that the second one is not totally unreasonable for someone with experience with winter backpacking and navigation. The trails out of Hessie usually see enough traffic up to their respective lakes that at least a good portion of your route should have some signs of passage, and the lower few miles may not have much snow at all. Once you are up on the Divide, that portion of it is relatively benign, and tends to be wind-scoured and thus fairly easy to travel on. The most difficult sections will be the deep east-facing basins of Devils Thumb Lake and King Lake, and the steep slopes leading up to their respective passes - which see little, if any traffic this time of year and will almost certainly involve deep snow and various routefinding challenges. If you're set on doing this route, my suggestion would be to do it in the opposite direction than what you mentioned (counterclockwise, instead of clockwise), so that you go up Devils Thumb Pass and down the King Lake side. The Devils Thumb sign has much more complex terrain and a very prominent cornice (it's usually there well into the summer), and is much better scouted from a distance rather than trying to find the safe way down from above. By contrast, the slope down to King Lake from Rollins Pass is fairly short and straightforward (though some avy potential may exist, so be careful). Of course, finding the point where the trail drops below treeline on your descent when buried in 6 or more feet of snow will be a navigational challenge - but you probably already know that if you've hiked in New England in the winter (I'm from there too, so I know how that goes). The good news is that, worst comes to worse, at that point even if you fail to locate the trail, just following the creek will eventually take you back to the trailhead.

Regarding weather, this week is shaping up something like this: today through Thursday will be more or less winter-like in the mountains (i.e. snowing, cold, and windy), while Friday through Sunday will be more (though not entirely) summer-like, which means that mornings should be clear, while afternoons may have thunderstorms (albeit with more snow or hail than rain this time of year). If you plan to traverse the Divide on a day with thunderstorm hazard, it's a really good idea to be off of it by around noon or so, since there's very little shelter from lightning once you're up there. Lastly, the above-treeline parts of the Divide in this area of Colorado can be as windy as Mount Washington - definitely don't underestimate it!

Good luck and be safe!

[PCT_Serge]

So, of the two options you suggested, I'd say that the second one is not totally unreasonable for someone with experience with winter backpacking and navigation. The trails out of Hessie usually see enough traffic up to their respective lakes that at least a good portion of your route should have some signs of passage, and the lower few miles may not have much snow at all. Once you are up on the Divide, that portion of it is relatively benign, and tends to be wind-scoured and thus fairly easy to travel on. The most difficult sections will be the deep east-facing basins of Devils Thumb Lake and King Lake, and the steep slopes leading up to their respective passes - which see little, if any traffic this time of year and will almost certainly involve deep snow and various routefinding challenges. If you're set on doing this route, my suggestion would be to do it in the opposite direction than what you mentioned (counterclockwise, instead of clockwise), so that you go up Devils Thumb Pass and down the King Lake side. The Devils Thumb sign has much more complex terrain and a very prominent cornice (it's usually there well into the summer), and is much better scouted from a distance rather than trying to find the safe way down from above. By contrast, the slope down to King Lake from Rollins Pass is fairly short and straightforward (though some avy potential may exist, so be careful). Of course, finding the point where the trail drops below treeline on your descent when buried in 6 or more feet of snow will be a navigational challenge - but you probably already know that if you've hiked in New England in the winter (I'm from there too, so I know how that goes). The good news is that, worst comes to worse, at that point even if you fail to locate the trail, just following the creek will eventually take you back to the trailhead.

Regarding weather, this week is shaping up something like this: today through Thursday will be more or less winter-like in the mountains (i.e. snowing, cold, and windy), while Friday through Sunday will be more (though not entirely) summer-like, which means that mornings should be clear, while afternoons may have thunderstorms (albeit with more snow or hail than rain this time of year). If you plan to traverse the Divide on a day with thunderstorm hazard, it's a really good idea to be off of it by around noon or so, since there's very little shelter from lightning once you're up there. Lastly, the above-treeline parts of the Divide in this area of Colorado can be as windy as Mount Washington - definitely don't underestimate it!

Good luck and be safe!

Alexey - thank you very much for your detailed advice. The idea of doing the loop in counter clockwise direction is the most valuable and much appreciated, thank you. Devils thumb pass was my main concern, and I believe having a visual estimation of it's current cornice condition will be a deciding factor weather we should just turn around and call it a day. Definitely having a clear visibility will be one of the main factors as well. Will be hoping the weather will hold up.

Thanks so much for everyone's responses. I've spent so much time trying to research this route, and one post on this forum has provided all of the necessary information and suggestions that I was looking for.

-Serge

[AlexeyD]

Alexey - thank you very much for your detailed advice. The idea of doing the loop in counter clockwise direction is the most valuable and much appreciated, thank you. Devils thumb pass was my main concern, and I believe having a visual estimation of it's current cornice condition will be a deciding factor weather we should just turn around and call it a day. Definitely having a clear visibility will be one of the main factors as well. Will be hoping the weather will hold up.

My pleasure! One more quick note about Devils Thumb Pass. The route you'll want to take (i.e. safest) is the one shown in google maps (terrain) - not the USGS.