Capitol's Death Route

[lkk8815]

The route right after the Capitol-Daly saddle is also not straightforward and from what I gather, contributed to one of the fatalities this year and might deserve some attention. When we were there a few weeks ago, we saw more cairns and "trail" going up into the 4th class ridge section than going down into the basin. Because we were following cairns, I didn't bother checking a map to see where the actual route was until we were pretty committed to it. Not a big deal for us but if I wasn't a climber, I definitely wouldn't have wanted to be exposed more than I had to be. It is in the route description but just wanted to point out that there were several cairns that would easily end up putting people into more challenging terrain than is necessary for the route.

[Ptglhs]

Are there sufficient signs at the TH warning people of how difficult, dangerous, and deadly this peak is? I haven't climbed Capitol, nor been to the TH, just passed underneath it when I did a 40 mile loop in Aspen-Snowmass 2 years ago.

Barr Trail has some great signage for a peak that is much, much, easier. It mentions the elevation gain and trail length, how fast you can expect to get to the summit, how much it will cost you to get a ride down after hours, etc. Would it be useful to have similar signage at either the TH or at Capitol Lake (which is a natural turnaround point for people anyway?) "This route climbs X feet in X miles. It is exposed scrambling on loose, class 4, rock near vertical cliffs. Many people have died on this mountain. Do not deviate from standard route. If you're not experienced and able, turn back now. This mountain can kill you." This would perhaps deter a few people, while at the same time keeping a smaller summit block free of signs.

I'd prefer a sign like the on described above at the trail head and another, much smaller one warning people about the risk of the false gully. Just an opinion though. I welcome feedback on what would keep people safe from more experienced folks.

[bergsteigen]

While the National Forrest Service is the ultimate decider in what happens sign wise, but what does CMC or CFI think? It's probably time for organizations such as these to actually stand up and make a recommendation on this issue before the non hiking public gets involved. The news is showing every accident now, so people are taking notice. From what I've seen, it doesn't look good, when their recommendations are limited to merely carrying some of the 10 essentials (so you can wait for rescue!). As if that would prevent people from going off route or tackling peaks above their experience grade. The community needs to be the leaders, not the lay public who thinks we're crazy for hiking these in the first place.

[AlexeyD]

As Nick (Somewhat of a Prick) pointed out, anyone who does their homework knows that isn't a route. It used to be that people wouldn't even consider attempting Capitol until they had 30 or 40 14ers under their belt.

Bingo. It IS the Crestone Needle debate all over again. And the same issue as with that one: it gets very heated, but doesn't really address the underlying problem.


If we take the above point to be true, the logical conclusion is that the sign - no matter its location - is really only for people who have no business being on the mountain in the first place (unless they are with someone more experienced). In that case, what is the sign saying, exactly? "You shouldn't be here, but since you insist, at least don't do this one dumb thing?" I'm sorry if that sounds insensitive given recent events, but again, I really feel like we're plugging leaks here instead of addressing the real issue (which SoCool alluded to in a different post).

[d_baker]

Isn't there a sign between Sunshine and Redcloud, stating "this is not the route down" or something like that?
And to think, that's on a class 1 hike!!
Oh my gawd, people shouldn't be up there!

[LURE]

As Nick (Somewhat of a Prick) pointed out, anyone who does their homework knows that isn't a route. It used to be that people wouldn't even consider attempting Capitol until they had 30 or 40 14ers under their belt.

Bingo. It IS the Crestone Needle debate all over again. And the same issue as with that one: it gets very heated, but doesn't really address the underlying problem.


If we take the above point to be true, the logical conclusion is that the sign - no matter its location - is really only for people who have no business being on the mountain in the first place (unless they are with someone more experienced). In that case, what is the sign saying, exactly? "You shouldn't be here, but since you insist, at least don't do this one dumb thing?" I'm sorry if that sounds insensitive given recent events, but again, I really feel like we're plugging leaks here instead of addressing the real issue (which SoCool alluded to in a different post).

So from that standpoint, how do we fix the underlying problem? I think this summer is showing us that we don't have a lot of control over that aspect of it. Plugging a leak is better than ignoring it.

We don't have the ability to keep people off the mountain. So how do we help those that go up there anyway? If not for their benefit, for the benefit of their families, and SAR.

[AlexeyD]

Oh my gawd, people shouldn't be up there!

Those that need it? Probably not.

[AnnaG22]

Good post. I think it helps explain some of the fatalities on Capitol this summer. As Nick (Somewhat of a Prick) pointed out, anyone who does their homework knows that isn't a route. It used to be that people wouldn't even consider attempting Capitol until they had 30 or 40 14ers under their belt. I'm trying to understand what is different this summer, that hikers with limited 14er experience are being drawn to Capitol Peak?

Dammit, Jomah, you screwed up the curve.

[polar]

I've joked about this on the Crestone Needle's thread, but I've since decided that it's actually a good idea: via ferrata.

Kinda like this:


http://hikehalfdome.com/accidents/

**There were no fatal falls off of the Half Dome cables when they were up for summer permitted use in 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016**

That's pretty amazing, considering how many people go up and down Half Dome a year (refer to the photo above).

I know, I know, not LNT! It will bring too many people into our mountains! Let's get the torch and pitchfork!

[AlexeyD]

As Nick (Somewhat of a Prick) pointed out, anyone who does their homework knows that isn't a route. It used to be that people wouldn't even consider attempting Capitol until they had 30 or 40 14ers under their belt.

Bingo. It IS the Crestone Needle debate all over again. And the same issue as with that one: it gets very heated, but doesn't really address the underlying problem.


If we take the above point to be true, the logical conclusion is that the sign - no matter its location - is really only for people who have no business being on the mountain in the first place (unless they are with someone more experienced). In that case, what is the sign saying, exactly? "You shouldn't be here, but since you insist, at least don't do this one dumb thing?" I'm sorry if that sounds insensitive given recent events, but again, I really feel like we're plugging leaks here instead of addressing the real issue (which SoCool alluded to in a different post).

So from that standpoint, how do we fix the underlying problem? I think this summer is showing us that we don't have a lot of control over that aspect of it. Plugging a leak is better than ignoring it.

We don't have the ability to keep people off the mountain. So how do we help those that go up there anyway? If not for their benefit, for the benefit of their families, and SAR.

Good points and good question.

Since we're talking signs: start with the content of the sign at least alluding to the above. The "Deadly Bells" one is a blueprint of sorts. Cap is a sketchy peak even if totally on route...if we're going to have a sign, this needs to be conveyed and emphasized.

[LURE]

Good post. I think it helps explain some of the fatalities on Capitol this summer. As Nick (Somewhat of a Prick) pointed out, anyone who does their homework knows that isn't a route. It used to be that people wouldn't even consider attempting Capitol until they had 30 or 40 14ers under their belt. I'm trying to understand what is different this summer, that hikers with limited 14er experience are being drawn to Capitol Peak?

Also, I don't know if it's necessarily different this summer, in a certain context, of course. I can't back this up with facts or numbers, but I've heard stories from people older than me - maybe on this site, but also in real life - of people hiking Capitol in jeans and flannels as their first many, many years ago. I think I've heard the same story about tourists going up there while they're in Colorado many years ago. Now we've got the same problem except with more people, the odds for disaster aren't much different, but more people means more disasters.

[gspup]

Who actually looks at the signs at the trailhead ? I've never looked at one.

Put a sign up, or don't. Doesn't really matter to me, but it could help some of these people who get in over there head. If you can find 5 cardboard summit signs at the top of most peaks why not add a f***ing wood sign 50ft off trail on this one. If you want a sign up there...make it happen because the FS probably wont do anything.