Threads related to Colorado mountaineering accidents but please keep it civil and respectful. Friends and relatives of fallen climbers will be reading these posts.
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Please be respectful when posting - family and friends of fallen climbers might be reading this forum.
First off, I'm very happy that this climber was saved. Great job to all involved there!
2nd off, what do you want Bill to do more? Mountains are dangerous and he already states that. Arbitrarily increasing the difficulty of a peak will save lives, maybe. But what the hell? I've seen in reports the Bells traverse rated at 5.6 now lol....its all 4th class. I guess I just don't dig this babying we promote on this site.
Lot of people on here will have a an extremely rude awakening when they go do do "3rd" class in California or Washington.
Perhaps not the best place for this post, but again, hope the climber recovers fully and is able to enjoy the CO outdoor soon.
Just to be clear, CCSAR has had multiple missions recently, some concurrent. The original topic of this discussion was from a mission a few weeks ago, then it evolved into a more recent one, the mention of a Black Hawk several posts ago was for a mission at Fluted Peak, it dropped off some personnel at the ridge line between Fluted and Little Horn peaks more than once, it also landed multiple times at the lake just south of that ridge. The most recent recent incident that has been mentioned on this forum involving an injured fallen climber was completed yesterday after a long technical litter lower. For the most up to date information regarding missions within the Crestones and the Sangres overall please refer to CCSAR's website or facebook page, also be aware that not all details have been made public yet, as one mission ends another begins. Everyone be safe out there.
FireOnTheMountain wrote:First off, I'm very happy that this climber was saved. Great job to all involved there!
2nd off, what do you want Bill to do more? Mountains are dangerous and he already states that. Arbitrarily increasing the difficulty of a peak will save lives, maybe. But what the hell? I've seen in reports the Bells traverse rated at 5.6 now lol....its all 4th class. I guess I just don't dig this babying we promote on this site.
Lot of people on here will have a an extremely rude awakening when they go do do "3rd" class in California or Washington.
Perhaps not the best place for this post, but again, hope the climber recovers fully and is able to enjoy the CO outdoor soon.
Agreed. Have we really come to the point in society where we need warning labels on everything, including our mountains? Study, train hard, do your homework, please be careful, and climb at your own risk.
(Forgive me for posting this on this particular thread, but the discussion had drifted several times.)
Bad decisions often make good stories.
IPAs + Ambien = "14ers" post (Bill M.)
In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps. Proverbs 16:9
FireOnTheMountain wrote:First off, I'm very happy that this climber was saved. Great job to all involved there!
2nd off, what do you want Bill to do more? Mountains are dangerous and he already states that. Arbitrarily increasing the difficulty of a peak will save lives, maybe. But what the hell? I've seen in reports the Bells traverse rated at 5.6 now lol....its all 4th class. I guess I just don't dig this babying we promote on this site.
Lot of people on here will have a an extremely rude awakening when they go do do "3rd" class in California or Washington.
Perhaps not the best place for this post, but again, hope the climber recovers fully and is able to enjoy the CO outdoor soon.
I think it's an important conversation to have, I understand what you are saying and believe it's a matter of perspective and consideration. You have a large volume of individuals of all different skill levels and backgrounds utilizing this website for their outdoor activities. Some who are very confident in their skills in the back country and some that are not. How they research the routes, interpret the information, and compare it to their skill level is entirely unique to each individual. Some may have done Class 3 on Sneffels and thought "Well Crestone Needle is Class 3, I guess that's within my skill set" but the two are completely different.
The popularity this site experiences coupled with the ease of access of information and the spectrum of user experience should be carefully considered. Adding a special note highlighting the dangers of the route to the Crestone Needle's route page wouldn't be a bad idea in light of this(it can still say Class 3) . If ~120 words of text can deter or influence a handful of individuals to re-consider the route before pursuing it in order to minimize injuries/deaths and keep SAR off the mountain, I think it's completely worth it. Ultimately, which direction this website goes or how this site is operated is purely up to Bill and I respect whatever decision he chooses.
RIP - M56
Re-introduce Grizzly Bears into the Colorado Wilderness™
At the upper trailhead (end of S. Colony Lakes Rd.) there is a HUGE sign warning of the dangers of climbing the Crestones. "These peaks should only be attempted in good weather by experienced parties. The descent from Crestone Needle, generally considered to be the most difficult climb of all 54 Colorado fourteeners, presents route-finding challenges. Many climbers have lost their lives descending the wrong couloir. It is absolutely critical that you stop often during your ascent to look back and memorize the landmarks that will help you safely re-trace your steps." (The sign even has the red ink.)
I'm not sure what more can be done to warn people of the inherent dangers of climbing those peaks. Many who have had accidents on the Needle and other dangerous peaks are experienced climbers who are well aware of the risks and who know what they're doing. Sometimes accidents just happen, e.g. rockfall.
So happy to hear that the climber in the most recent incident on the Needle was safely transported out, thanks to the amazing work of the rescue teams. That photo on CCSAR's Facebook page shows how difficult their job was, and all of us in the climbing community are indebted to them.
"So many things I would have done, but clouds got it my way."
FireOnTheMountain wrote:Lot of people on here will have a an extremely rude awakening when they go do do "3rd" class in California or Washington.
To bad there are not a few peaks in Colorado similar to the harder California 14ers. It would be interesting in a bad way to see the comments about fixing lines, permanently marking the route, chopping hold / steps, etc. etc. etc.
John Landers wrote:
To bad there are not a few peaks in Colorado similar to the harder California 14ers. It would be interesting in a bad way to see the comments about fixing lines, permanently marking the route, chopping hold / steps, etc. etc. etc.
But there are plenty of difficult alpine routes in Colorado - just look at Rossiter's guide to RMNP. It's just that, by and large, the most difficult peaks rarely seem to be 14k'+.
Perhaps it's because the majority of these routes don't end at a summit, the people who are attracted to them aren't necessarily peak baggers, but rather technical climbers who are constantly practicing their skill. Alpine trad. is not as popular as summiting 14ers.
I wish I could remember the part of the route that's giving so many people problems better. I was racing a storm down - I don't remember it being a big deal at that section, although I did miss the turn, and had to backtrack back up.
I passed the group that had a climber fall the other day, they were the next on the summit after us. They were competent and moving appropriately clearly capable. Inherently no matter what you do there is risk in a given activity. Even the most experienced mountaineer/climber/hiker/etc can slip and end up having a real bad day, if you read Custer County SAR's post it sounds like this gentleman slipped and fell 20-30 feet, easy to do in that area. Even on the easiest terrain you can slip and fall and twist and ankle requiring a litter ride out.
In fairness however, there is a very tricky route finding portion of the needle. Knowing where to switch gullys is almost harder then just climbing the "East" class 4 gully to the summit imho. Clearly there have been a number of injuries and deaths related to route finding on that peak.
FireOnTheMountain wrote:Lot of people on here will have a an extremely rude awakening when they go do do "3rd" class in California or Washington.
To bad there are not a few peaks in Colorado similar to the harder California 14ers. It would be interesting in a bad way to see the comments about fixing lines, permanently marking the route, chopping hold / steps, etc. etc. etc.
Why? Everyone knows what class 3 means in California. We're in Colorado and everyone know what class 3 means here. Personally, I think the route is 3+. No big deal. The thing that makes 3+ or class 4 noteworthy is not the technicality. But if you slip and fall, it's the bounce that will do you in.
I came across a fixed rope on little bear- I didn't use it, but it didn't bother me either. And we all have used fixed bolts while technical rock climbing. A lot of projection over this whole needle cross over thing.
FireOnTheMountain wrote:Lot of people on here will have a an extremely rude awakening when they go do do "3rd" class in California or Washington.
To bad there are not a few peaks in Colorado similar to the harder California 14ers. It would be interesting in a bad way to see the comments about fixing lines, permanently marking the route, chopping hold / steps, etc. etc. etc.
Why? Everyone knows what class 3 means in California. We're in Colorado and everyone know what class 3 means here. Personally, I think the route is 3+. No big deal. The thing that makes 3+ or class 4 noteworthy is not the technicality. But if you slip and fall, it's the bounce that will do you in.
I came across a fixed rope on little bear- I didn't use it, but it didn't bother me either. And we all have used fixed bolts while technical rock climbing. A lot of projection over this whole needle cross over thing.
