14ers.com

pvnisher wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:54 pm After all, 80% of the value in Arc'teryx is the logo on the chest!
Suggestions?

You got it wrong, the value lies in the quality of their product and the customer service. But you are missing the point if you think the value in their shells is just the logo.

Would the shell, with no logo, be worth $500? Who would buy it? A shell made of top fabric and craftsmanship but with no branding is worth pretty close to nothing. ("Worth"being defined as what someone is willing to pay for it)
You assume the logo means it has top materials and craftsmanship, therefore the logo imparts the worth.

I have a number of dead bird items. They are all nice. Top shelf. But let's be honest here. The difference between a $50 shell and a $200 shell is a lot more than between a $200 and a $500 shell.

Any luxury item, from wine to cars to guitars to shells, has a pretty slim actual difference from an upper middle class to top shelf.

But back to topic, I decided to tell the person that the item was a fake, but it was my fault because I had sent them the link. So they're going to do a PayPal complaint. Hopefully it'll get resolved. The seller website is down, so who knows. I think the chances of them sending me a label to return it are nil.

Alright which one of you is this?

https://denver.craigslist.org/clo/d/gol ... 50922.html

"This is not an authentic Arc'teryx item. It has all the features of the Alpha SV jacket and is made from the same material as the previous models were. The factories who manufacture pieces for these high end brand will sell clothing directly instead of sending it to Arcteryx to tack all their special finishing pieces onto (And the premium price). In other words, you're getting the same high end waterproof coat at a much lower price."

pvnisher wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:15 am Would the shell, with no logo, be worth $500? Who would buy it? A shell made of top fabric

Just out of curiosity - how would you determine that the shell was made of "top fabric"? I mean, it's a forgery after all. There is no guarantee of anything with a fake like that...

Dayute wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:25 pm Alright which one of you is this?

Ha. Not me.

SkaredShtles wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:10 pm Just out of curiosity - how would you determine that the shell was made of "top fabric"? I mean, it's a forgery after all. There is no guarantee of anything with a fake like that...

Well, for starters, the question was rhetorical.
But for second, I used to work with WLGore and would get products to evaluate before they hit the market. paclite, pro shell, comfort mapping stuff, some fabrics that never got released, etc. Sometimes a jacket would have one backing or DWR on one half and another on the other half.
Straight from the manufacturer. No branding or logo anywhere.
I was prohibited from selling those items, but even if I wanted to, I'll tell you that no one would have bought it. Especially online. And not for anywhere near $500.

Why do you think companies make fake products with the logo, but not fake products with the real material?
This Chinese company makes fake Arc'teryx jackets, not fake Columbia ones...
The price is set by the logo.

Hey, its yours now. Do with it as you wish.
I wouldn't lie about what it is like the vendor you bought it from, but if you can make your money back go for it! I'm sure there's someone out there looking for a good "work" jacket or hiking jacket for a low price. Or you could always "gift" it to someone. Maybe it'll work as a decent paintball or airsoft jacket. Maybe a high-end bib for winter BBQs. And there's always Goodwill! That's a valid tax deduction. Money in your pocket.

pvnisher wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:54 pm<snip>
Why do you think companies make fake products with the logo, but not fake products with the real material?
This Chinese company makes fake Arc'teryx jackets, not fake Columbia ones...
The price is set by the logo.

Because it's obviously a company out to screw consumers. Why in God's name would you *expect* them to use quality fabric? I sure wouldn't assume they were using the good stuff

"We're in business to rip off the customer, but we use quality materials."

My 2020 goal for this website is to assume the best of other posters. I'm struggling with it today, but I'll assume good intentions and rein in the sarcasm and eye rolls.

I was making a rhetorical question. Would a hypothetical jacket, made my a hypothetical company, of top notch materials, with high quality craftsmanship and quality control, but without any logo or branding, be worth as much as the same jacket, but with a dead bird logo on it?

That was my point in saying that's why they copy the logo, but don't copy the craftsmanship or materials. I feel like it's pretty self-explanatory, so I'll probably just let this one go if it's still confusing...

Back on topic in case others find themselves in similar positions:
I initiated a fraud complaint with PayPal. They contacted the company, who offered me a full refund if I ship the item back. PayPal requires signature verification for that, which makes sense. However, since I had contacted Arc'teryx about it, they put me in touch with the Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre.
Those guys said NOT to send it back. Reasons being:
-the company will then just sell the jacket to another sucker
-cost to ship back with signature verification can be quite expensive
-company may say the item was returned without tags and not issue the refund, and then still sell the product again

So I terminated the PayPal case and contacted my credit card. They gave an immediate refund pending hearing back from the company.
But since I have emails from Arc'teryx stating which specific things are wrong with the jacket, another statement saying the company is a known counterfeiter that the Canadians have been trying to shut down, and a third from Canadian law enforcement telling me not to return the jacket, I think I'll end up ok.

And yes, it goes without saying, if it's too good to be true...
I was doing a little retail therapy and now clearly regret it!

pvnisher wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:49 pm I was doing a little retail therapy and now clearly regret it!

Perhaps you regret it, but "we" don't. In my book, it was well worth it!

Returning stuff sucks. Period. I just go for the credit card refund. They're always cool with it. Most legit companies don't ask for returns anymore. Too much hassle. Especially if you ask THEY pay for it!