14ers.com

I stumbled across somewhat of a mystery (possibly).

There seem to be 3 sources which state the prominence of Mount Elbert and they all say it's over 9k feet.

Source #1
https://www.peakbagger.com/peak.aspx?pid=5736

Source #2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... ted_States

Source #3
Google "What is the prominence of Mount Elbert" and Google reports the answer at the top of the search results. I think Google might be pulling this info from one of the other sources.

I notice this long ago and it never quite passed the smell test to me since the nearby towns pretty high up - Leadville 10k'+, Twin Lakes ~9,600', Aspen ~8000'.

Today I took a close look at the topo map on Alltrails.com and the lowest the elevation around Elbert drops before rising up to another peak is ~9700', near Highway 24, which seems like it would give Elbert a prominence of 4700'
https://www.alltrails.com/explore/trail ... static-map

What do you guys think? Are the sources that say 9k+ prominence possibly wrong or am I maybe misunderstanding some subtly to how prominence is measured? I love to do mountain research though and I am an out-of-state newbie.

I've been thinking about this now, in part, because I just saw Elbert for the first time from Leadville earlier this week and tomorrow and am planning on driving Independence pass, and if there is some place to see Elbert standing up 9000'+ feet from the surrounding terrain, while I'm in the area I've love to see it!

Thanks much for any thoughts anyone has.

Are you familiar with Mt. Whitney?

"Prominence is calculated as the difference in elevation between a summit and the highest saddle that connects that summit to any higher terrain. ... Put another way, prominence is the elevation difference between the summit and the lowest contour that encircles it and no higher summit."

I'm curious where the "saddle" is ... I'd guess somewhere in Wyoming maybe?

BillMiddlebrook wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:05 pm Are you familiar with Mt. Whitney?

Somewhat, yes, though I've never studied its prominence.

LarryM wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:09 pm "Prominence is calculated as the difference in elevation between a summit and the highest saddle that connects that summit to any higher terrain. ... Put another way, prominence is the elevation difference between the summit and the lowest contour that encircles it and no higher summit."

I'm curious where the "saddle" is ... I'd guess somewhere in Wyoming maybe?

Thanks!

That's a more comprehensive definition of prominence that I could find. If I understand it correctly, for Elbert to have 9,000'+ of prominence, there should be a saddle ~5400 feet in the vicinity.

I see lots of peaks on the topographical map around Mt. Elbert, like Bull Hill, Mt. Cosgriff, Monitor Rock, French Mountain, Casco Peak, Mount Oklahoma, Bald Eagle Mountain, Twin Mounds, South Peak, Empire Hill, Rocky Point, Black Mountain, and no saddle anywhere close to 5400 that I can see.

I agree, the saddle would need to be someplace like Wyoming to get to a 9,000 prominence, I'm just not seeing how to get there when Elbert is surrounded by other peaks. The neighboring peaks to the north and east seem relatively far away from Elbert compared to the west/south neighbors but they still block the way to any elevation anywhere close to 5,400 as far as I can see.

There's some good info in this thread with links about prominence: https://14ers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54079

According to that thread, the saddle that Mount Elbert's prominence is measured from to Mount Whitney is in California at 5340ft here: https://listsofjohn.com/qmap?lat=37.382 ... .8322&z=15

mgl45 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm
I agree, the saddle would need to be someplace like Wyoming to get to a 9,000 prominence, I'm just not seeing how to get there when Elbert is surrounded by other peaks. The neighboring peaks to the north and east seem relatively far away from Elbert compared to the west/south neighbors but they still block the way to any elevation anywhere close to 5,400 as far as I can see.

Those surrounding peaks are not higher than Elbert. Prominence is measured to the saddle with the next highest peak, which for Elbert is Mount Whitney in California.

It's this definition which makes prominence a worthless stat imo. If you're comparing it to a mountain thousands of miles away the prominence piece is academic.

mgl45 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pmI'm curious where the "saddle" is ... I'd guess somewhere in Wyoming maybe?

It's in California, not Wyoming.

Ptglhs wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:39 pm It's this definition which makes prominence a worthless stat imo.

Personally, I both agree and disagree. It is useful in determining which peaks should be ranked. Other than that, it's not very useful in my opinion.

IntrepidXJ wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:36 pm

mgl45 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm
I agree, the saddle would need to be someplace like Wyoming to get to a 9,000 prominence, I'm just not seeing how to get there when Elbert is surrounded by other peaks. The neighboring peaks to the north and east seem relatively far away from Elbert compared to the west/south neighbors but they still block the way to any elevation anywhere close to 5,400 as far as I can see.

Those surrounding peaks are not higher than Elbert. Prominence is measured to the saddle with the next highest peak, which for Elbert is Mount Whitney in California.

Ah, there's the rub. It all makes sense now. Thanks for the information!

IntrepidXJ wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm There's some good info in this thread with links about prominence: https://14ers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54079

According to that thread, the saddle that Mount Elbert's prominence is measured from to Mount Whitney is in California at 5340ft here: https://listsofjohn.com/qmap?lat=37.382 ... .8322&z=15

Interesting thread, thanks!