14ers.com

jmanner wrote: I have a real hard time believe that these folks are acting in good faith. The minute they think they can turn a profit strip mining these peaks they will. I appreciate the hard work of CFI and everyone else, but it isn’t believable the “land owners” are acting as good stewards of the land here.

I tell you what, it’s difficult to be diplomatic about these landowners.

The irony of this statement is it was done using a device that required multiple mining operations in its manufacturing. It is also a good example of how someone can hold seemingly contradictory views. You implicitly support mining with the purchase of a phone, driving of a vehicle, living in modern buildings. Yet I’ll totally believe that you care about our open spaces. Just like I believe those landowners care about our open spaces, while understanding that extracting precious resources do have a place in our society.

bluegrassclimber wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 7:38 pm

jmanner wrote: I have a real hard time believe that these folks are acting in good faith. The minute they think they can turn a profit strip mining these peaks they will. I appreciate the hard work of CFI and everyone else, but it isn’t believable the “land owners” are acting as good stewards of the land here.

I tell you what, it’s difficult to be diplomatic about these landowners.

The irony of this statement is it was done using a device that required multiple mining operations in its manufacturing. It is also a good example of how someone can hold seemingly contradictory views. You implicitly support mining with the purchase of a phone, driving of a vehicle, living in modern buildings. Yet I’ll totally believe that you care about our open spaces. Just like I believe those landowners care about our open spaces, while understanding that extracting precious resources do have a place in our society.

So, I can’t decry the machinations of a couple of knuckledraggers that think that one day gold is going to be standard benchmark for our currency, while needing like an angstrom of gold in my phone or computer? That Teddy Roosevelt was so full of s**t for establishing Uncompaghre National Forest, he killed animals so it’s obvious he had no business advocating the creation of public lands.

If only a person could both see the need for Molycorp’s mines and yet not sympathize with a couple jackasses trying to essentially blackmail the public for access to public lands.

jmanner wrote: So, I can’t decry the machinations of a couple of knuckledraggers that think that one day gold is going to be standard benchmark for our currency, while needing like an angstrom of gold in my phone or computer? That Teddy Roosevelt was so full of s**t for establishing Uncompaghre National Forest, he killed animals so it’s obvious he had no business advocating the creation of public lands.

If only a person could both see the need for Molycorp’s mines and yet not sympathize with a couple jackasses trying to essentially blackmail the public for access to public lands.

You can decry whatever you wish. But in this case, it’s reading to me ridiculous and hypocritical.

Molycorp and these landowners have similar interests in mineral rights and similar interests in how those claims and rights exist alongside outdoor recreation.

bluegrassclimber wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 7:38 pm

jmanner wrote: I have a real hard time believe that these folks are acting in good faith. The minute they think they can turn a profit strip mining these peaks they will. I appreciate the hard work of CFI and everyone else, but it isn’t believable the “land owners” are acting as good stewards of the land here.

I tell you what, it’s difficult to be diplomatic about these landowners.

The irony of this statement is it was done using a device that required multiple mining operations in its manufacturing. It is also a good example of how someone can hold seemingly contradictory views. You implicitly support mining with the purchase of a phone, driving of a vehicle, living in modern buildings. Yet I’ll totally believe that you care about our open spaces. Just like I believe those landowners care about our open spaces, while understanding that extracting precious resources do have a place in our society.

And here on the right we have bleugrassclimber.
I swear some people on this forum have an unquenchable addiction to completely ignoring nuance and context. Take your dumbass sarcastic "lel gotcha!" garbage elsewhere. In before "ironic".

supranihilest wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:13 pm

bluegrassclimber wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 7:38 pm

jmanner wrote: I have a real hard time believe that these folks are acting in good faith. The minute they think they can turn a profit strip mining these peaks they will. I appreciate the hard work of CFI and everyone else, but it isn’t believable the “land owners” are acting as good stewards of the land here.

I tell you what, it’s difficult to be diplomatic about these landowners.

The irony of this statement is it was done using a device that required multiple mining operations in its manufacturing. It is also a good example of how someone can hold seemingly contradictory views. You implicitly support mining with the purchase of a phone, driving of a vehicle, living in modern buildings. Yet I’ll totally believe that you care about our open spaces. Just like I believe those landowners care about our open spaces, while understanding that extracting precious resources do have a place in our society.

And here on the right we have bleugrassclimber.

Screen_Shot_2021-03-01_at_2.28.39_PM.png

I swear some people on this forum have an unquenchable addiction to completely ignoring nuance and context. Take your dumbass sarcastic "lel gotcha!" garbage elsewhere. In before "ironic".

Alright, I’ll do that.

bluegrassclimber wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 7:38 pm

jmanner wrote: I have a real hard time believe that these folks are acting in good faith. The minute they think they can turn a profit strip mining these peaks they will. I appreciate the hard work of CFI and everyone else, but it isn’t believable the “land owners” are acting as good stewards of the land here.

I tell you what, it’s difficult to be diplomatic about these landowners.

The irony of this statement is it was done using a device that required multiple mining operations in its manufacturing. It is also a good example of how someone can hold seemingly contradictory views. You implicitly support mining with the purchase of a phone, driving of a vehicle, living in modern buildings. Yet I’ll totally believe that you care about our open spaces. Just like I believe those landowners care about our open spaces, while understanding that extracting precious resources do have a place in our society.

we could like, you know, recycle computers more aggressively, but because it’s not profitable we don’t.

so we’re again stuck in the downward spiral of doing bad things because they make money and avoiding good and right things because it doesn’t make as much money.

pizza-sandwich wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 9:59 am
we could like, you know, recycle computers more aggressively, but because it’s not profitable we don’t.

so we’re again stuck in the downward spiral of doing bad things because they make money and avoiding good and right things because it doesn’t make as much money.

there are plenty of good/right things we don't do that would save people a ton of money or make money.

AnnaG22 wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 12:24 pm
there are plenty of good/right things we don't do that would save people a ton of money or make money.

okay and?

it still leaves us in a situation where private property rights are being asserted to an area so someone can maybe hopefully destroy it to make money later.

the fundamental problem here is still the same: a couple greedy bozos think they can just sit on a molding mining claim in the hopes they can cash in some day. and because it’s “their claim” they can shut it down when they feel like it. it’s crazy to me people think that’s like morally acceptable because “it’s duh law”.

sure it’s easy to let this slide, i personally don’t care much about the baby 14ers, but it we transposed this onto other things in nature that are way more fragile and irreparable it starts to look pretty obvious why we’re seeing ecosystems collapse all around us.

so when are we going to stop compromising? today sounds just fine to me.

American society is based on free market principles and capitalism. Until the planet -with its fragile ecosystems and finite resources- is more valued as a protected unspoiled space than as a raw untapped source of building materials, minerals, etc. etc., nothing will change.

Already plenty of areas in the US and abroad have found the greater value in protecting natural spaces over damaging them and doing irreparable harm. Look at Breckenridge. It was once little more than a s**t hole mining district. Once material prices crashed, they discovered tourism was more profitable than raping the earth for gold nuggs* and never went back. Some other mountain towns followed a different trajectory.

*I realize the ski resort industry is not great for the planet. But I still think exploiting an area for tourism preserves precious spaces better than resource extraction.

Jorts wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 3:07 pm [snip]

But I still think exploiting an area for tourism preserves precious spaces better than resource extraction.

Such philosophy also allows the masses to benefit from a finite resource (in this case, land) vs all or most of the benefits going to the few. I am a proponent of those ideals.

supranihilest wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 3:23 pm

Jorts wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 3:07 pm [snip]

But I still think exploiting an area for tourism preserves precious spaces better than resource extraction.

Such philosophy also allows the masses to benefit from a finite resource (in this case, land) vs all or most of the benefits going to the few. I am a proponent of those ideals.

There are just too many humans and we all want comfortable, meaningful lives requiring more stuff. Only economists and idiots think exponential growth is good in a finite world. ::mini fatalist rant over::

Too many humans, ha ha, what a concept.