Mauna Kea and kids

[Skimo95]

Thanks for the reminder diving is better than hiking in Hawaii. Sorry they were assholes.

[Wentzl]

The road is graded dirt from 9300' to ~11800' and paved again from there to the summit. It's incredibly steep for being so well maintained, such that low gearing or a manual gear selector (not 4WD) are helpful to avoid riding your brakes all the way down. Guessing no different from Pikes or BS.

Probably the increasingly aggressive gatekeeping arises out of the telescope controversy. https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... anagement/

I assume giving control of the summit to native Hawaiians means bad things for access by the general public.

Aloha is such a bloated myth. The Hawaiians hate haole with passion. Snorkeling on the Big Island from airport beach I mistakenly ended up on a "native only" beach and was run out of there with threats and hostility I would have expected from a ____________ in ___________.

you fill in the blanks

[nyker]

Guess things have changed for the worse since I was there....that's unfortunate.

[madbuck]

Wow sorry to hear. I really had to re-read to see that they were opposed to *driving* a child and not hiking. And the 30 minute forced "acclimation" time.
Spot on observation when people are focused on rules and gatekeeping but not true concern and rendering aid. True litmus test of their intent. It sounds like people projecting their own inadequacies and insecurities.

[Boggy B]

I did submit a complaint to the Center for Maunakea Stewardship (cmshilo@hawaii.edu) and received a response that they'd meet with the rangers on staff that day--so at least it went to the right place--but given the bad information about altitude sickness and acclimatization that appears on their official websites, I doubt there'll be any correction. We didn't have any special concerns due to prior experience, but according to the CDC children and (low-risk) pregnant women are at no greater risk of altitude sickness. Really this should be a bigger concern in Colorado since people travel here from low elevations and go straight up Pikes or BS, where unlike Mauna Kea you can't just drive back down to sea level in 30 minutes if you get AMS.

[Boggy B]

Aloha is such a bloated myth. The Hawaiians hate haole with passion.

It's probably more nuanced than that considering only a small fraction of the population claim at least some Native Hawaiian ancestry on the census. But I do feel bad for them. Our visit made me realize just how much I take for granted what we have here: millions of acres of easily-accessible public land where you can find solitude in nature without guardrails and nannying. On Oahu it's only 40 miles from the S to N coast. Every beach, break, and trail is overrun with tourists, the interior climate is awful, traffic is permanently jammed, and the cost of living seems disproportionately high. So I definitely understand whatever animus locals may feel towards visitors, though the only bad vibes we got were from the mauna caretakers.

[Matt]

Aloha is such a bloated myth. The Hawaiians hate haole with passion.

It's probably more nuanced than that considering only a small fraction of the population claim at least some Native Hawaiian ancestry on the census. But I do feel bad for them. Our visit made me realize just how much I take for granted what we have here: millions of acres of easily-accessible public land where you can find solitude in nature without guardrails and nannying. On Oahu it's only 40 miles from the S to N coast. Every beach, break, and trail is overrun with tourists, the interior climate is awful, traffic is permanently jammed, and the cost of living seems disproportionately high. So I definitely understand whatever animus locals may feel towards visitors, though the only bad vibes we got were from the mauna caretakers.

It's because we don't have Mahalo Rewards cards. Nothing to do with colonization.

[thetoddman]

Aloha is such a bloated myth. The Hawaiians hate haole with passion. Snorkeling on the Big Island from airport beach I mistakenly ended up on a "native only" beach and was run out of there with threats and hostility I would have expected from a ____________ in ___________.

you fill in the blanks

I've visited Hawaii in the range of 50-75 weeks total over a span of thirty-five years and hiked hundreds of miles there. I think that it has changed somewhat over the years as outsiders have driven up the price of everything so the native residents have a very difficult existing in their own homeland. And I'm sure they resent that. But, as a haole myself, I've rarely experienced any issues. On the contrary, I've often been treated with what I'd describe as an aloha spirit, so I don't think your generalization is fair. I have heard that the Big Island (which I've visited a half-dozen times, including the summit of Mauna Loa a couple times) is less accepting of haoles (especially in the Hilo area) but again I never experienced it. I'll also point out that whenever someone visits a place thet're not from and demonstrates an expectation to be treated like royalty because of their tourism money it tends to not be looked on favorably. American travelers being universally disliked is NOT a myth...and for good reason.

But aloha is NOT a myth, IMO. I've personally seen too many examples of it in action to conclude otherwise. I'm sorry you had such a lousy experience, Wentzl - I'd probably feel the same way as you.

[cedica]

American travelers being universally disliked is NOT a myth...and for good reason.

Disliked to a degree in some countries, yes, but not on the same level or even remotely close to being universally disliked as British tourists. Or ISIS.

But Hawaii... those stories don't even sound like genuine hate to me, more like "narcissism of small differences".

[mtree]

I've been to Kauai and Maui a number of times (Oahu once, briefly). I've never had a bad experience with anyone, but I'm very low key and low maintenance. I generally eat and shop at "local" joints and keep away from tourist areas as much as I can. I'm a visitor in Hawaii and treat the "locals" as I treat anyone. Many times, I don't know who's a native, a local, or a wannabee or poser. These differences are a goofy web about culture and customs and ancestors. A native was born and raised and has familial ties to the area going back hundreds of years before white boy stepped foot on the shores. A local is someone from another locale who has largely grown up locally and blended in with the native population over time or was born into a local family. Yeah, that means their family may go back generations, but still not be considered "native". (That's right all you folks sporting "NATIVE" bumper stickers in Colorado... unless you're of Indigenous descent, you're still a local!) A wannabee or poser is, well, you can figure it out. There are nice people and there are mean people and everything in between. And regardless of who is who anyone can be an ass jockey.

For me, so far so good in Hawaii. One thing is certain, if you act like a haole, you will be treated as a haole.