2021 Goals

[FireOnTheMountain]

Why would it be a joke? Everyone can set their own goals. Personally I don't like leading at my following level because I weigh 270 and am afraid of launching the belayer, or worse. Usually I climb with my son. He's half my weight. When he's leading we climb at a higher level than when I am leading. There aren't many climbers out there as big as I am or that I want to belay me on a big lead fall (which isn't their fault-if someone was beefy, I'd reconsider). I had a bad fall once and it wasn't fun. I've also had falls where I launched the belayer (100 or more lbs lighter) in the air. I don't like leading hard stuff (or at least hard for me) with you scrawny folk belaying me. Of course that's one of my reasons, but someone else might have a different reason. Everyone can set their own goals. If someone wants to lead 5.8 and climb 5.13, that's between you and your partners.

Are you saying your son is preventing you from climbing 5.13?

I understand we can all set our own goals but climbing 5.13 and wanting to lead 5.8 makes absolutely 0 sense, no matter how you slice it up. Unless by "5.8" he means he wants to lead trad. Then that's different and a legit goal.

Being able to crimp and move on 5.13 terrain and not lead 5.8 is definitely a gym/plastic age thing for sure, without trying to throw this poor dude too under the bus that is.

[curt86iroc]

just to make another analogy with the whole 5.8 / 5.13 climbing goal thing for the non-technical climbers out there...

climbing 5.8 is the equivalent of running a 10 min mile. Most anyone in decent shape can do it. climbing 5.13 is running a sub 6 min mile. it wouldn't make sense for a runner to set a 10 min mile goal AND a sub 6 min mile goal in the same year...

again, also assuming we are not talking about different climbing disciplines (trad vs. sport). but, at the end of the day, to each his own.

[dannyg23]

Personally I don't like leading at my following level because I weigh 270 and am afraid of launching the belayer, or worse.

Nobody likes leading at their following level and it doesn't have anything to do with weight.

Had to be a joke, that goal is absurd.

[dannyg23]

just to make another analogy with the whole 5.8 / 5.13 climbing goal thing for the non-technical climbers out there...

climbing 5.8 is the equivalent of running a 10 min mile. Most anyone in decent shape can do it. climbing 5.13 is running a sub 6 min mile. it wouldn't make sense for a runner to set a 10 min mile goal AND a sub 6 min mile goal in the same year...

again, also assuming we are not talking about different climbing disciplines (trad vs. sport). but, at the end of the day, to each his own.

This is not really appropriate, because running the ten min mile doesn't come with additional risk. Leading is more dangerous and it is super normal to lead at a much lower grade than you follow. However, as you allude to the disparity in this instance is stupid. If you can climb 5.13 you can easily climb a 5.8 in any style.

Also: climbing 5.13 is significantly more rare than running a 6m mile.

[curt86iroc]

Also: climbing 5.13 is significantly more rare than running a 6m mile.

perhaps, but you got the point i was aiming at.

[ker0uac]

I don't get what is wrong with that goal... leading and following require very different skills that can progress at different paces although they shouldn't... an easy example would be those coming from sport climbing/bouldering, but it can also be the case if you mostly climb at crags where you can hike to the top to setup anchors or mostly climb single-pitch routes. I can barely lead 5.6, but I might be able to lead ~5.8 routes that I have followed a few times because I'll know exactly where to put hardware.

[Scott P]

Are you saying your son is preventing you from climbing 5.13?

No, and I have never climbed 5.13. I never will. I climbed one (and only one) 5.11 several years ago (The Cobra at Fisher Towers). My son is a lot better climber than I am (though he's out of commission for a while due to a 20' whipper he took on Monday). That has nothing to do with my post.

I understand we can all set our own goals but climbing 5.13 and wanting to lead 5.8 makes absolutely 0 sense

It doesn't have to make sense to you. It's his goal.

Anyone can set their own goals and they don't owe any type of explanation to anyone else.

A lot of goals make zero sense. Are you going to beat someone up about it if they can lead 5.13, but still want to do Mt Elbert?

[Monster5]

In summary, to which all knowledgable parties might agree*, Abe is a jerk for hating on someone else's goal, and said goal is "Epstein killed himself" level of ridiculousness.

*obviously does not include the party that uses a 5.6 to 5.8 comparison to justify a 5.8 to 5.13 comparison.

[FireOnTheMountain]

^^^This.

A lot of goals make zero sense. Are you going to beat someone up about it if they can lead 5.13, but still want to do Mt Elbert?

No, but I dont get how you don't get the hilarity in this goal seeing how you've gotten on the sharp end of harder things. Since you all didn't seem to pick up on the running analogy mentioned earlier, I'll give another one...homeboy here is trying to solve nonlinear partial differential equations but can't do grade school addition/subtraction.

Maybe he meant he wants to go boulder V8/V9 (the approx. equivalent to 5.13) cause the likelihood of someone top rope hero'ing so much to the point they were were sending 5.13 on TR and couldn't clip 5.8 bolts is nill. But go ahead, you guys can keep entertaining yourself that its a sensible goal and provide us more odd similarities to back your point.

[justiner]

Eh, maybe lead is really hard for the individual. I overhear many a story from V12+ boulderers at the gym of their first flatiron scramble and how scaaaaaaaaaared they were. Heck, I can climb V8 and I've passed on taking 5.7 trad leads. I turn the other way merely passing by the road to Eldo,

[mtnkub]

Yeah, and i think FOTM even acknowledged somewhere that the 5.8 might make sense if it was trad, not sport.
(Which could have been the end of the argument, as the goal poster didn't specifically state sport lead?)

[FireOnTheMountain]

Allow me to provide 1 more summary:

• Some people boulder hard but dont rope climb....aka they dont need leading and/or rope skills cause they either prefer bouldering or are scared of risks present in wall climbing that are not present on shorter boulders. This is why I said perhaps Mr. Skis means he wants to boulder “5.13”, or v8/9 whatever.

• Some people lead sport but don’t lead easy trad….aka they either prefer sport or never wanted to learn trad (often times crack) climbing. E face of flattys fall into this category due to their slabby wonderfulness/streches of gear lackage. This reason is why I said Mr. Skis perhaps means he wants to lead 5.8 trad.

• I brought up the age of plasticers cause their perception of the climbing is pretty fairyland for the most part. Walls are outside and made of rocks is the sole reason why. No elitism, just a fact of the matter.

So, if we assume he didn’t mean trad climbing or anything indoors….NO ONE sets a goal to top rope 5.13 and also lead 5.8 sport. It just doesn't make sense with the activity that is sport climbing, no matter how dumb goals may be. I mean unless he talking 1 very specific climb with 1 very specific 13 move just to say he climbed 5.13 otherwise no effing way he getting up anything more than that.

Wrapping it all back to this site….mountaineering has grades too. Walk ups to mixed, nails ice. Is Skis gonna do Torreys then go for K2 unguided, no Os? Or a proud mixed line in the Alps?

People find their niche and for some it’s every discipline. A lot of the parameters and choices people make when it comes to “climbing” are based on that person’s personality/thinking with regards to risk, drive etc etc but I’m gonna stop now before providing any more opportunity on tangents related to climbing. Of which, there are infinite because it’s an activity founded on style and subjectivity is therefore inherent.