How many of the 14, 8000ers are harder than Everest??

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CoopAir
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How many of the 14, 8000ers are harder than Everest??

Post by CoopAir » Mon May 02, 2016 2:45 pm

I've always wondered, how many of the 14, 8000 meter peaks are more challenging overall to summit than Everest?

Obviously K2 and Annapurna are much harder, but other than these 2, which others?

Lets assume the "standard" route on each of these summits for apples-to-apples comparison.

Thanks!
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Re: How many of the 14, 8000ers are harder than Everest??

Post by skik2000 » Mon May 02, 2016 2:53 pm

The only 2 I'd venture to say are easier are G2 and Cho Oyu but I could be way off. Everest might have the altitude advantage but also has a lot more infrastructure.
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Re: How many of the 14, 8000ers are harder than Everest??

Post by Scott P » Mon May 02, 2016 3:17 pm

K2, Kanchenjunga, Lhotse, Makalu, Dhaulagiri, Nanga Parbat, and Gasherbrum I are all harder than Everest.

K2 and Annapurna are generally considered to be the hardest, while Kanchenjunga and Nanga Parbat are not far behind. Gasherbrum I would probably be next hardest.

Assuming they are climbed in the same style and via their standard routes, Cho Oyu and sometimes Shisha Pangma, Gasherbrum II, and Broad Peak can be easier or as easy as Everest. Possibly Manaslu in some years.

Cho Oyu is the least technical 8000er via its standard route (though South Face routes are very difficult). It is usually (maybe always?) easier than Everest.

Shisha Pangma and Broad Peak can be easier than Everest, if conditions are perfect (though this seems to be uncommon), but both have knife edges at the very end that can be difficult when conditions are not perfect (which is quite often). That's why so many people stop at the fore-summit on both peaks. Reaching the fore-summits is probably easier than Everest most of the time, and they are only a few feet/meters below the true summits, but standing on the true summit is usually considered a requirement for an ascent, thus most of the time they would be harder.

Gasherbrum II has been historically easier than Everest, but a few years ago (maybe it was 2006?), part of the ridge collapsed, making the standard route much more difficult than it used to be.

Manaslu isn't very technical via the standard route, but it is a very dangerous peak and has high avalanche danger.
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Re: How many of the 14, 8000ers are harder than Everest??

Post by I Man » Mon May 02, 2016 3:54 pm

Assuming no Oxygen, I think most would say Everest is one of the hardest, if not the hardest. K2 and Kang would come close since they are also very high.

The impression I get though, if you allow for oxygen and guides, then Everest would be one of the easiest, with maybe Cho and Shisha being a bit easier.
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Re: How many of the 14, 8000ers are harder than Everest??

Post by Scott P » Mon May 02, 2016 4:10 pm

Assuming no Oxygen, I think most would say Everest is one of the hardest, if not the hardest.
Because of elevation, climbing on equal terrain on Everest vs. K2, would make the lack of oxygen on Everest quite a bit harder (on Everest itself there is actually a big difference between 28,250 feet and 29,028 feet, when is comes to climbing difficulty without supplemental oxygen).

The two peaks don't have equal terrain on their standard routes, however. Even though climbing on equal terrain on Everest vs. K2 would make Everest much harder if the routes were equally difficult, K2 is actually a much harder and more dangerous peak without oxygen. While Everest has a somewhat "reasonable" survival rate for ascents without supplemental oxygen, the death rate on K2 for ascents without supplemental oxygen is appalling.
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Re: How many of the 14, 8000ers are harder than Everest??

Post by SchralpTheGnar » Mon May 02, 2016 4:54 pm

Viesturs said that Everest without o's was the hardest, but since he hasn't skied Corbets I don't really respect his opinion.
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Re: How many of the 14, 8000ers are harder than Everest??

Post by falcon568 » Mon May 02, 2016 7:25 pm

I'd heard from a guide and pretty bamf/awesome dude that (conditions dependent), Kanchenjunga was technically harder than K2. He had just come off doing both. Obviously can't speak to either, but that was the first I'd heard of something topping K2. RIP Sammy Mansikka
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Re: How many of the 14, 8000ers are harder than Everest??

Post by SoCool » Mon May 02, 2016 7:53 pm

This is very disappointing, this is not a mikefromcraig thread.
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Re: How many of the 14, 8000ers are harder than Everest??

Post by CoopAir » Mon May 02, 2016 8:47 pm

Wow!!

VERY helpful and cool info. The collective knowledge of you guys is fantastic, and I wasn't expecting such a gold mind of info.

Thank you very much!

On a side note, my version of climbing an 8000 meter peak was trekking 14 mi, carrying almost 70 lbs, to one of the most beautiful and remote stretches of beach in the Bahamas to the NE Point of Great Inagua (90 mi NW of Haiti, 80 mi NE of Cuba)!

I was 68 miles from the nrst permanent settlement at the end.

Read the fantastic book "Inagua, by Gilbert Klingel to get a feel for how wild, remote and beautiful this area is.

http://www.amazon.com/Inagua-Island-Soj ... rds=inagua" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: How many of the 14, 8000ers are harder than Everest??

Post by Salient » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:02 am

CoopAir wrote:
Mon May 02, 2016 2:45 pm
I've always wondered, how many of the 14, 8000 meter peaks are more challenging overall to summit than Everest?

Obviously K2 and Annapurna are much harder, but other than these 2, which others?

Lets assume the "standard" route on each of these summits for apples-to-apples comparison.

Thanks!
I was taught that the 8000ers were ranked like this:

> Hardest
K2
Annapurna
Kangchenjunga
Nanga Parbat
Dhaulagiri
Makalu
Gasherbrum I
Manaslu
Lhotse
Everest
Shisha Pangma
Gasherbrum II
Broad Peak
Cho Oyu
> Easiest
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Re: How many of the 14, 8000ers are harder than Everest??

Post by Scott P » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:27 am

Salient wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:02 am
CoopAir wrote:
Mon May 02, 2016 2:45 pm
I've always wondered, how many of the 14, 8000 meter peaks are more challenging overall to summit than Everest?

Obviously K2 and Annapurna are much harder, but other than these 2, which others?

Lets assume the "standard" route on each of these summits for apples-to-apples comparison.

Thanks!
I was taught that the 8000ers were ranked like this:

> Hardest
K2
Annapurna
Kangchenjunga
Nanga Parbat
Dhaulagiri
Makalu
Gasherbrum I
Manaslu
Lhotse
Everest
Shisha Pangma
Gasherbrum II
Broad Peak
Cho Oyu
> Easiest
Similar. Sources are John Cleare, Richard Sale, and Dan Mazur (though John Cleare and Richard Sale's synopsis is a little different than Dan Mazur; if it was I went with the majority opinion).

> Hardest
K2
Annapurna
Nanga Parbat
Kangchenjunga
Makalu
Gasherbrum I
Dhaulagiri
Lhotse
Everest
Manaslu
Broad Peak
Gasherbrum II
Shisha Pangma
Cho Oyu
> Easiest

The one that varies the most seems to be Dhalagiri. For some reason it goes all over the place on the lists. Some say it belongs to the tougher part of the list and some people say it belongs to the easier part of the list. I'm not sure why there is so much disagreement on this one. I know the mountain gets a lot of storms and along with Annapurna get more moisture and precipitation than the other peaks, but I don't know what else makes the opinion vary so much.

Other comments:

While Shisha Pangma and Broad Peak are often considered some of the easier ones, the last part of both ridges is sometimes really difficult and trecherous. When conditions are good, the peaks are straight foreward. When the last part of the ridges are heavily corniced, even the really experienced mountaineers fail.

Gasherbrum II once shared the distinction with Cho Oyu as the easiest 8000, but part of the ridge fell off making the climb more difficult.

Dan Masur at least said that Manaslu is among the easiest from a technical standpoint, but it can have lots of avalanche danger and has a high death rate. When he guided it, Dan Masur went as far as saying it might be the easiest 8000er, but he's the only one I have heard who has said that. Edit: He's still guiding it and still says that it is one of the easier 8000ers:

https://www.summitclimb.com/climb/manaslu

Perhaps the reason Manaslu varies on list is because of the danger involved? From a technical standpoint it might not be hard, but from a danger avoidance standpoint, it might be?
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Re: How many of the 14, 8000ers are harder than Everest??

Post by cottonmountaineering » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:46 am

Salient wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:02 am
CoopAir wrote:
Mon May 02, 2016 2:45 pm
I've always wondered, how many of the 14, 8000 meter peaks are more challenging overall to summit than Everest?

Obviously K2 and Annapurna are much harder, but other than these 2, which others?

Lets assume the "standard" route on each of these summits for apples-to-apples comparison.

Thanks!
I was taught that the 8000ers were ranked like this:

> Hardest
K2
Annapurna
Kangchenjunga
Nanga Parbat
Dhaulagiri
Makalu
Gasherbrum I
Manaslu
Lhotse
Everest
Shisha Pangma
Gasherbrum II
Broad Peak
Cho Oyu
> Easiest
Looks about right to me, Annapurna normal route isn't technically difficult, just dangerous. Everest difficulty can also be changed a bit depending on how much money you have
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