Dehydrated Beer

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schrund
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Dehydrated Beer

Postby schrund » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:38 am

OK, it's not really de-hydrated, but it is called "concentrated" http://www.patsbcb.com/beer-concentrate Has anyone tried this? \:D/
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Re: Dehydrated Beer

Postby SuperiorTrailHiker » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:15 am

Not yet, but I've been emailing him off and on for several years to let him know he's got a few guaranteed customers waiting anxiously - I want to say I first saw the site pop up five years ago or so, with the note that he's been working to bring it to market ever since. I can't imagine the rules and regs involved with marketing and distrbiuting alcohol over the internet from Talkeetna, but it would seem they are not insignificant.

Now I see that they're live with the soft drinks, but still no beer.

Since I don't really ever need soft drinks off the trail, let alone on it, I'm going to hold off until there's beer. Then I'm all over it with high hopes.
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Re: Dehydrated Beer

Postby TallGrass » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:31 pm

Given the issues with concentrated energy and or alcohol drinks the past several years, I can imagine a food and beverage official asking what's to stop people (especially college students) from just slamming down 24 of these in one U.S. pint glass that isn't even full (1.2 beers*, 14.4oz; US pint = 16oz). Or that 3.2abv makes this 64abv (128proof) in concentrate, stronger than any vodka or whiskey and only surpassed by the likes of everclear (banned in several states) and some high-grade absinths. (* 95% water --> 5% product = 1/20, x 24 = 24/20 = 1.2)
Not sure if I'll do more 14ers. The trip reports are too tiring. :wink:
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Re: Dehydrated Beer

Postby ajkagy » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:56 pm

TallGrass wrote:Given the issues with concentrated energy and or alcohol drinks the past several years, I can imagine a food and beverage official asking what's to stop people (especially college students) from just slamming down 24 of these in one U.S. pint glass that isn't even full (1.2 beers*, 14.4oz; US pint = 16oz). Or that 3.2abv makes this 64abv (128proof) in concentrate, stronger than any vodka or whiskey and only surpassed by the likes of everclear (banned in several states) and some high-grade absinths. (* 95% water --> 5% product = 1/20, x 24 = 24/20 = 1.2)


I imagine the concentrate tastes pretty horrible by itself...and I'm pretty sure bacardi 151 is legal in all 50 states which is 75% abv which would be even stronger. No need for more laws protecting people from their own stupidity, we have enough of those already.

As for the concentrate i'd be very interested in it for camping trips, and wondering how they actually make it. I've known people to boost the abv of their home brew by using a freezing technique to freeze the water out of the beer since the alcohol freezes at a lower temp. Cool stuff
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Re: Dehydrated Beer

Postby TallGrass » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:27 pm

ajkagy wrote:No need for more laws protecting people from their own stupidity, ... boost the abv of their home brew by using a freezing technique

First begs the question because there was never a comment of making laws (q.v. Strawman). My comments simply demonstrate that it is more likely to be treated/regulated as high-proof liquor than looser restrictions that allow low-proof beer to be sold at supermarkets and gas stations -- factors affecting bringing a product to market as STH raised.

Second is that removing water, distilling, or other processes that increase ABV outside of yeast/fermentation means it is no longer beer even though that was the stock, just like distilling merlot to make 'shine means it's no longer wine. Regulation allows for only negligible % change before it is treated as "concentrate" rather than "beer."

Don't argue with me on this; argue with the ATF. http://www.ttb.gov/rulings/94-3.htm "Section 25.261 authorizes the production of concentrate from beer, and the reconstitution of beer from concentrate, at the brewery."
Not sure if I'll do more 14ers. The trip reports are too tiring. :wink:
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Tiredness is the shortest path to equality and fraternity - and sleep finally adds to them liberty."
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Re: Dehydrated Beer

Postby kansas » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:37 pm

TallGrass wrote:
Second is that removing water, distilling, or other processes that increase ABV outside of yeast/fermentation means it is no longer beer even though that was the stock, just like distilling merlot to make 'shine means it's no longer wine. Regulation allows for only negligible % change before it is treated as "concentrate" rather than "beer."



Are you saying Eisbock isn't a beer?

And there are much easier ways to boost the ABV of a beer than freeze distilling. A few pounds of corn sugar is much more efficient.
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Re: Dehydrated Beer

Postby SuperiorTrailHiker » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:44 pm

ajkagy wrote:As for the concentrate i'd be very interested in it for camping trips, and wondering how they actually make it.



For the record, I have no connection to the guy and no knowledge of how he does it; that said, from the site it looks like he gets a ferment going in a batch of basic beer goo. Water isn't added or subtracted to it at any point, so I wonder if that affectes the legal definition of "concentrate" for the purposes of ATF regulations. I refer to it as "dehydrated" beer when I describe it to people, but only for convenience sake - he doesn't actually remove any water from it.

I do homebrew, but have never investigated the legalities of selling, moving, or marketing any kind of alcohol in any form, so I just generally surmise that he's up against a wall of red tape and give him a pass while I bide my time patiently.
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Re: Dehydrated Beer

Postby MonGoose » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:45 pm

I've heard of this before, but I think it was called whiskey.
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Re: Dehydrated Beer

Postby TallGrass » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:00 pm

kansas wrote:Are you saying Eisbock isn't a beer?
Are you saying koalas are bears, the whaleshark is a shark, and that wine is grapes? :wink: Still "beer" if you remove the hops? Or alcohol? Dumping sugar (non-RG 1516) will only go so far due to the self-limiting effect of alcohol killing the yeast, thus stronger yeasts are needed for higher ABVs or successive fermentations. Again, to the OP's concerns, I just see this product having more difficulty coming to market than beer.
Not sure if I'll do more 14ers. The trip reports are too tiring. :wink:
"A few hours' mountain climbing make of a rogue and a saint two fairly equal creatures.
Tiredness is the shortest path to equality and fraternity - and sleep finally adds to them liberty."
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Re: Dehydrated Beer

Postby ajkagy » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:09 pm

SuperiorTrailHiker wrote:
ajkagy wrote:As for the concentrate i'd be very interested in it for camping trips, and wondering how they actually make it.



For the record, I have no connection to the guy and no knowledge of how he does it; that said, from the site it looks like he gets a ferment going in a batch of basic beer goo. Water isn't added or subtracted to it at any point, so I wonder if that affectes the legal definition of "concentrate" for the purposes of ATF regulations. I refer to it as "dehydrated" beer when I describe it to people, but only for convenience sake - he doesn't actually remove any water from it.

I do homebrew, but have never investigated the legalities of selling, moving, or marketing any kind of alcohol in any form, so I just generally surmise that he's up against a wall of red tape and give him a pass while I bide my time patiently.


yea very interesting since it's hard to brew any kind of beer past 14% abv, even then you'd have to have perfect fermentation temps, the right ratio of yeast nutrient/sugars and probably use distillers yeast.

They could however just brew a concentrated batch (less water to begin with), ferment as much as possible given the high concentration of sugar and add ethanol to get the right abv.

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