Needle Route Description

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MaryinColorado
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Re: ❗Needle Route Description

Post by MaryinColorado »

I should be working, but I wandered in here "just for a minute", and the red exclamation mark caught my eye and pulled me in, dang it. Thanks for the update, Bill! I haven't done the Needle yet but have been intensely curious - especially due to all the incidents - to see these aspects of the route in person. Thanks for the update! Do you plan on sharing this onto the FB page? If you are, I will refrain so we don't duplicate. Given the prominence of Needle-related discussions the past couple years, I think the page would be interested to know.
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daway8
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Re: ❗Needle Route Description

Post by daway8 »

BillMiddlebrook wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:00 pm Good idea, Kiefer.

I can do site-wide route notifications but have to be careful not to over use them because they may start to be ignored because there are a bunch of individual routes which already have alerts.

Maybe a forum post like this one, with an eye-catching icon so it’s obvious? It could then be bumped over the next few weeks.
I agree that site-wide route notifications should be kept to a bare minimum otherwise they just fade into the background.

This post was eye-catching enough to stand out...
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montanahiker
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Re: ❗Needle Route Description

Post by montanahiker »

BillMiddlebrook wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:25 pm Next up...

El Diente standard south instead of north :-D
Was looking at the routes just yesterday and wondered why north was standard. Maybe there's a reason but when the first sentence directs you to the alt route when the standard route is dry they seem like they should flip.
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BillMiddlebrook
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Re: ❗Needle Route Description

Post by BillMiddlebrook »

montanahiker wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:41 pm
BillMiddlebrook wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:25 pm Next up...

El Diente standard south instead of north :-D
Was looking at the routes just yesterday and wondered why north was standard. Maybe there's a reason but when the first sentence directs you to the alt route when the standard route is dry they seem like they should flip.
And Mt. Wilson ;)

Yeah, it's simply been about history and the fact that printed guidebooks still use the northern routes as standard.
However, with the new, Class 3 Southwest Slopes route on Mt. Wilson AND the excellent trail work in Kilpacker all the way up to the start of ElD's south route, it's probably time to change the El Diente and Mt. Wilson standards to the southern routes.
"When I go out, I become more alive. I just love skiing. The gravitational pull. When you ski steep terrain... you can almost get a feeling of flying." -Doug Coombs
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BillMiddlebrook
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Re: ❗Needle Route Description

Post by BillMiddlebrook »

MaryinColorado wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:27 pm I should be working, but I wandered in here "just for a minute", and the red exclamation mark caught my eye and pulled me in, dang it. Thanks for the update, Bill! I haven't done the Needle yet but have been intensely curious - especially due to all the incidents - to see these aspects of the route in person. Thanks for the update! Do you plan on sharing this onto the FB page? If you are, I will refrain so we don't duplicate. Given the prominence of Needle-related discussions the past couple years, I think the page would be interested to know.
Good idea, I'll post over on FB right now.
Thanks!
"When I go out, I become more alive. I just love skiing. The gravitational pull. When you ski steep terrain... you can almost get a feeling of flying." -Doug Coombs
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ClimbingFool
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Re: ❗Needle Route Description

Post by ClimbingFool »

Great work, as always. I would also request a picture or two of the descent. Having been there just a few weeks ago, I could see the terrain being confusing even when coming up one of the gullies. Seems like most people get in trouble on the descent.
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BillMiddlebrook
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Re: ❗Needle Route Description

Post by BillMiddlebrook »

I try to toss in a few "looking down" photos on most complex routes. In the new Needle route description, I hope pics 15, 19 and 26 will be helpful.
"When I go out, I become more alive. I just love skiing. The gravitational pull. When you ski steep terrain... you can almost get a feeling of flying." -Doug Coombs
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cedica
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Re: ❗Needle Route Description

Post by cedica »

BillMiddlebrook wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:25 pm Next up...

El Diente standard south instead of north :-D

EDIT: And Mt. Wilson :-D :-D
Also saw the other day that the excellent Sunlight/Windom trail (one that passes the peeing rock) is already in! \:D/

That talus hopping through the middle basin route may be gone from the route description, but it's not forgotten.
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montanahiker
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Re: ❗Needle Route Description

Post by montanahiker »

ClimbingFool wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:05 pm Great work, as always. I would also request a picture or two of the descent. Having been there just a few weeks ago, I could see the terrain being confusing even when coming up one of the gullies. Seems like most people get in trouble on the descent.
This is a great general request that would apply to most routes. I try to look back when I'm on the way up in certain sections but it's always nice to have something to reference.
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BillMiddlebrook
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Re: ❗Needle Route Description

Post by BillMiddlebrook »

cedica wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:18 pm
BillMiddlebrook wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:25 pm Next up...

El Diente standard south instead of north :-D

EDIT: And Mt. Wilson :-D :-D
Also saw the other day that the excellent Sunlight/Windom trail (one that passes the peeing rock) is already in! \:D/

That talus hopping through the middle basin route may be gone from the route description, but it's not forgotten.
Right! There are plenty of places you can still talus-hop in that area, like the terrain to/from Windom's saddle. CFI tried to route people up to the right and across the boulder field below Peak 18 but that is an absolute mess. Best to stick closer to the center of the basin as I've described in the route.

I especially liked the "trail" CFI built through the boulderfield to get to the ramp leading to Eolus and N Eolus. The boilerplate rock was cool but the new section is much more sustainable.
"When I go out, I become more alive. I just love skiing. The gravitational pull. When you ski steep terrain... you can almost get a feeling of flying." -Doug Coombs
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-wren-
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Re: ❗Needle Route Description

Post by -wren- »

yes!!!

OTW down post traverse, It was incredibly nerve wracking to watch from the east gully as a couple people had to be coached through the more difficult moves on that thing in clunky boots with poor technique. Not to mention the routefinding above. Good call!

I would personally consider the needle to be the 2nd most difficult 14er now (if sorting by YDS class) and it’s a very close call if you ask me.
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Re: ❗Needle Route Description

Post by BillMiddlebrook »

-wren- wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:23 pm yes!!!

OTW down post traverse, It was incredibly nerve wracking to watch from the east gully as a couple people had to be coached through the more difficult moves on that thing in clunky boots with poor technique. Not to mention the routefinding above. Good call!

I would personally consider the needle to be the 2nd most difficult 14er now, and it’s a very close call if you ask me.
You've reminded me that I need to put some text at the END of the traverse route description, referencing the descent on the Needle if the reader has not done it. I can't make people read it but I can link to it and tell them they could easily get off-route descending the Needle without doing some homework.
"When I go out, I become more alive. I just love skiing. The gravitational pull. When you ski steep terrain... you can almost get a feeling of flying." -Doug Coombs
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