ISO Cielo Vista/culebra extra space-ANY DATE

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happyfeet
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ISO Cielo Vista/culebra extra space-ANY DATE

Post by happyfeet »

Just like the title says, looking for a spot in anyone’s group for one person. I reached out to the ranch but it’s already filled up for the season. Aiming to finish this summer and it would be a huge assist. Case of beer on me in addition to the obvious ranch fee. Thanks in advance!
happyfeet
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Re: ISO Cielo Vista/culebra extra space-ANY DATE

Post by happyfeet »

Bump :thumbup:
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CaptainSuburbia
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Re: ISO Cielo Vista/culebra extra space-ANY DATE

Post by CaptainSuburbia »

Maybe join the Cielo Vista southern 13ers group? Culebra is included.
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wineguy
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Re: ISO Cielo Vista/culebra extra space-ANY DATE

Post by wineguy »

Is there a date and space for access to southern 13ers? (Oops! Never mind)
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KingHenryJames3rd
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Re: ISO Cielo Vista/culebra extra space-ANY DATE

Post by KingHenryJames3rd »

I am in the same situation you are in. Looks like I won't be finishing this year. I do have my name on the wait list at the ranch Incase someone backs out but odds are they would give their spot to someone else before giving the spot back to the ranch. Oh well looks like I will have to do it in winter time!

Just curious does anyone know why they don't allow weekday access?
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Re: ISO Cielo Vista/culebra extra space-ANY DATE

Post by Ptglhs »

KingHenryJames3rd wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:58 am Just curious does anyone know why they don't allow weekday access?
Not enough people want to do it. Their employees have other things to do during the week. They only allow access those three days during non hunting season to make more money.

You could probably Google operation dark snake if you're really looking for an alternate method of accessing these Peaks.
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Re: ISO Cielo Vista/culebra extra space-ANY DATE

Post by RyGuy »

Ptglhs wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:23 am
KingHenryJames3rd wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:58 am Just curious does anyone know why they don't allow weekday access?
Not enough people want to do it. Their employees have other things to do during the week. They only allow access those three days during non hunting season to make more money.

You could probably Google operation dark snake if you're really looking for an alternate method of accessing these Peaks.
Or you could not do something that will likely land you with a trespassing conviction and increase the chances that they close off access to the rest of us who aren't selfish twits.
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Re: ISO Cielo Vista/culebra extra space-ANY DATE

Post by Ptglhs »

RyGuy wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:04 am Or you could not do something that will likely land you with a trespassing conviction and increase the chances that they close off access to the rest of us who aren't selfish twits.
You mean as selfish as one person owning and closing off access to alpine areas not being used for anything?
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Jon Frohlich
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Re: ISO Cielo Vista/culebra extra space-ANY DATE

Post by Jon Frohlich »

Ptglhs wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:40 am
RyGuy wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:04 am Or you could not do something that will likely land you with a trespassing conviction and increase the chances that they close off access to the rest of us who aren't selfish twits.
You mean as selfish as one person owning and closing off access to alpine areas not being used for anything?
Are you using your backyard tomorrow? I'll invite a bunch of people over to hang out on your property. You'd be pretty selfish to close it off if you aren't using it.
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Re: ISO Cielo Vista/culebra extra space-ANY DATE

Post by Ptglhs »

Jon Frohlich wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:06 am Are you using your backyard tomorrow? I'll invite a bunch of people over to hang out on your property. You'd be pretty selfish to close it off if you aren't using it.
Oh yes, because taking someone's argument to an absurd end is definitely a good idea. That said, I don't have a backyard, so knock yourself out there, fluffy bits.
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Re: ISO Cielo Vista/culebra extra space-ANY DATE

Post by RyGuy »

Ptglhs wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:40 am
RyGuy wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:04 am Or you could not do something that will likely land you with a trespassing conviction and increase the chances that they close off access to the rest of us who aren't selfish twits.
You mean as selfish as one person owning and closing off access to alpine areas not being used for anything?
The difference here you fail to understand is that the owner of Cielo Vista has a legal right to do whatever the heck he wants with his land. That's not selfish, he paid a lot of money for it, and he can legally and objectively do whatever he sees fit. It doesn't matter if you think that is selfish, he has a right. End of story.

You as a person do not have a right to use that land because you have not paid to have that right. Jon's point is absolutely valid even if you had a yard. There are always benefits to owning something, regardless of if it is land, a car, a house, a building, etc. If you have an issue with the owner of Cielo Vista only allowing people on the weekends, then scrape some money together and buy it from him and guess what? Now you can do whatever you want with it. Want to only allow climbers to access it from 10PM-4AM each day because you like watching little lights go up a hill in the middle of the night? You can do that. You paid for the right to do that. But until you own it, don't encourage others to piss off the owner such that he then closes access entirely and then nobody climbs anything on his property. You only need look at the recent situation with Lincoln, Democrat, Bross and Cameron to see that it can be done. And heck, Culebra would be FAR easier to close than any other peak. It was closed for many years, and can be closed again if the owner chooses.
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Re: ISO Cielo Vista/culebra extra space-ANY DATE

Post by Ptglhs »

Rights are social constructions. They are both subjective and objective. You think the "owner" of that land has a moral and legal right to close it off. I agree it's legal, disagree it's moral, and I don't think what he and his henchmen are doing should be legal. I think everyone has a right to hike there. End of story, as you say. See? Me saying that doesn't make my argument any more valid than yours. Ditto making two words appear in bold type.

The current owner didn't pay any money for that land. It was an inheritance.
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