Info on gear, conditioning, and preparation for hiking/climbing.
Forum rules
This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
For more details, please see the Terms of Use you agreed to when joining the forum.
curt86iroc wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:46 am
thanks, im well aware of the data. my point was, if you reduce the population down to people caught in avalanches, the rate of mortality is less for those wearing transceivers than those without.
The study population was 1504 persons who were involved in 752 avalanches either in Switzerland from 1990 to 2000 and from 2002 to 2003 (1296 persons, 86.2%) or in Austria from 1998 to 2004 (208 persons, 13.8%). Persons equipped with an avalanche airbag had a lower chance of dying (2.9% versus 18.9%; P=0.026, OR 0.09, n=1504). In persons who were completely buried, without visible or audible signs at the surface and who did not rescue themselves (n=317), we found a lower median duration of burial (25min versus 125min; P<0.001) and mortality (55.2% versus 70.6%; P<0.001, OR 0.26) in those using an avalanche transceiver than in those not using the device.
the study from the CAIC deals with relative levels of experience and doesn't necessarily correlate any data between transceiver usage and mortality.
I took pvnisher's comment as alluding to the fact that beacons and knowledge beget more experience which begets greater risk overall. Having said that, there's no question beacons save lives (just like seatbelts) and you should know how to use them if you're going to recreate in slide terrain.
There's a common misconception (though less common than past) that beginners are most commonly involved in avalanche accidents.
The CAIC's study used questions to somewhat control for self-reporting bias (e.g. highest level of avy education, years recreating in the backcountry, number of days per year, etc.).
Traveling light is the only way to fly.
IG: @colorado_invasive
Strava: Brent Herring
pvnisher wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:54 pm
Statistically, wearing that beacon and the training to go along with it will increase your likelihood of dying in an avalanche by a fair amount.
that's a slightly misleading claim
Yeah, this is the book I'm reading right now.
Screenshot_20211027-194329_Chrome.jpg (127.59 KiB) Viewed 2474 times
pvnisher wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:54 pm
Statistically, wearing that beacon and the training to go along with it will increase your likelihood of dying in an avalanche by a fair amount.
that's a slightly misleading claim
Yeah, this is the book I'm reading right now.
Screenshot_20211027-194329_Chrome.jpg
You can make up statistics to prove anything. 87% of people know that
After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb. -Nelson Mandela
Whenever I climb I am followed by a dog called Ego. -Nietzsche
I get my medical kits, tourniquet, and blister aid materials from the HSA store. Although an avy beacon isn't on there, there's a surprising amount of things on there that qualify as covered by an HSA.
The website is legit and I've used it several times.
"There are two ways to measure life; the number of days you simply exist or the number of days you spend truly living your human experience." 14ers.com user goingup
Interesting points. Risk mitigation is a key tool I use for my self-preservation; probably as we all do to some degree. Traveling in Colorado's BC and hitting on avy terrain? Beacon/probe/shovel gear and skills required; not that hard, not that heavy, not a huge cost, but a good investment, and may save a life is how it works out for me. So far so good.