Trail runners with a durable upper?

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summitrunner
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Re: Trail runners with a durable upper?

Post by summitrunner »

It is all in the feet! I just completed the 100K' Vertical Challenge this summer in a pair of Nike Pegasus. They are road shoes. I paid $70 for the pair. They held up nicely as I ran up and down the double line at Ski Cooper nearly 60 times. Some of you would say I'm insane for wearing this model for this challenge. I've worn Pegasus shoes for almost 20 years without fail. They are my bread and butter.

This question is so hard. All of the runners I coach wear the same shoes...same brand and model. They either love the shoes or can't stand them. I can't say one brand or model is better than another. Sorry this isn't more helpful...try different shoes until you find the right one?
"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." PRE
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Barnold41
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Re: Trail runners with a durable upper?

Post by Barnold41 »

I have an older pair of Adidas Kanadia TR7s that have held up for a while now, but I admit that I switch between these and my Danners depending on the day. Personally, I love the Adidas but they don't make that exact model anymore. Great grip and traction with a large toe box. They still have some on Amazon, if you're not opposed to supporting that...

https://www.amazon.com/adidas-Outdoor-K ... B017YZVMA0
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Jeff Valliere
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Re: Trail runners with a durable upper?

Post by Jeff Valliere »

I test/review shoes and have run in just about everything out there and also beat them up in rugged terrain. I was going to suggest a handful of Sportivas, but then read your commentary on sizing.

Recommendations are tricky of course given variance in runner's foot shape, preferences, running style, stride/gait, terrain, weight, etc....

That said, a few others you might consider (if you can find them in your size):

Salomon XA Alpine Pro
Brooks Cascadia 16 (completely redone and one of my favorites for 2021)
Topo Mountain Racer 2 (don't be fooled by the name)
Hoka Speedgoat 4
Saucony Peregrine 10 or 11
Saucony Xodus 10 or 11
Saucony Mad River TR 2
VJ Maxx
Scott Kinabalu or Supertrac RC (though I have not tested their most recent versions, but hopefully soon)

If you want more info on any of these, just google the shoe name and RoadTrailRun for our reviews, or reach out with any other specific questions about these or any others you come across.
timisimaginary
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Re: Trail runners with a durable upper?

Post by timisimaginary »

Hoka Speedgoats have been pretty durable for me. the upper is a bit more burly than some of the mesh-topped shoes.
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Re: Trail runners with a durable upper?

Post by Conor »

Hatteras Jack wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:48 pm
Conor wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:28 pm I tend to rub a hole on the outside near the ball of my pinky. I take it as part of the trade off of wearing trail runners. I gain flexibility, breathability, and light weight, sacrificing durability. I wear saucony peregrine and go through about 3 or 4 pairs a year. They last 250 to 300 miles for me, and that is an acceptable usage for me.
< 300 just sounds unacceptable...I think my expectations are just too high! I have been upping my mileage this summer, and I'm just not prepared to eat through a pair of shoes every month. Need a sponsor [-o< More realistically I should just start working at a running shoe store so I can cop that discount.
I guess my view is in today's world i can score a shoe i know fits me well, provides great comfort on trail and when i buy on sale, costs less than gas for a trip outside of the front range. Perhaps it is gross over consumption, but I'm not just buying shoes to buy them. Do i wish my shoes lasted forever? Yes.

I will throw out a gripe since i have a somewhat captive audience. Thr best (trail) shoe i ever wore was pearl izumi. And every time i bring them up to someone who wore them, i have never heard anything but praises. I wore the tread off of them so much i could barely walk on class 2 terrain without slipping. Again, it's all trade offs. Stickier rubber, less durability. Never a hole in the upper. RIP pearl izumi shoes.

Good luck on your hunt for the perfect set of shoes.
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Re: Trail runners with a durable upper?

Post by John Prater »

Conor wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:51 am Thr best (trail) shoe i ever wore was pearl izumi. And every time i bring them up to someone who wore them, i have never heard anything but praises. ... RIP pearl izumi shoes.
I didn't try out Pearl Izumi trail runners until Jeff V suggested the Trail N3. Agreed, really liked that shoe (Jeff does know his shoes!). Unfortunately, I think that was near the end of the line for Pearl Izumi trail runners. Looking at my shoe miles on Strava, I put 403, 510, 259, and 370 miles on the four pairs I had - the 259 seems off/low and the 370 I still wear on occasion. 400-500 miles is pretty good for me for my trail runners. I'd probably say that the Montrail Streak was probably my favorite trail shoe ever, though.

One shoe model that stands out from my Strava shoe miles are the three pairs of La Sportiva Ultra Raptors I've had: 497, 438, and 539 miles. I do recall that those all got the Seam Grip treatment on the uppers. I probably should have stuck with that model, but I've been enjoying the Mutants lately.

I've also really enjoyed the Speedgoats. Seven pairs of Speedgoat 2's that I usually got 300-350 miles out of, though 521 miles out of one pair. The uppers on these were not very durable for me, though. They got the Seam Grip treatment early in the forefoot area, and I even resorted to duct tape on the inside to extend the life. And then one pair of Speedgoat 4's with 350 miles. The uppers on those also did not hold up well. That pair has huge holes on the inside of the forefoot (probably worse than the 2's), and I wore those much longer than I normally would have in that shape. The outsoles on the 4's were probably the most durable (and the grippiest) I've had from 20+ pairs of Hokas, though. Despite the lack of durability on the Speedgoat 4 upper, I'm still a fan because of the outsole and have a couple new pairs to wear.
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Re: Trail runners with a durable upper?

Post by Aphelion »

Question for you guys posting these 400+ miles per pair: are you wearing them until you get holes completely through the sole? I only recently started tracking miles/pair, and after only ~130 miles my LS Bushidos have almost completely lost the lugs under the ball of the foot, and the rest of them are definitely worn down by half or so. Sure, they still have a some life left in them, but this noticeably degrades traction on anything but smooth rock. Are you just waiting until your shoes are completely flat and tractionless before calling them done?
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Re: Trail runners with a durable upper?

Post by HikerGuy »

I'm not a runner, just a hiker. I usually get 400-500 miles out of a pair shoes/boots. Either not much traction is left and/or the upper is starting to fail somewhere. I'm a heel striker, so the heel is always gone through to the midsole. I should probably get new shoes/boots at 300 miles because I'm sure the midsole is toast by then.
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Re: Trail runners with a durable upper?

Post by Hatteras Jack »

Thanks for the input so far everybody. Lots for me to chew on, including a change of expectations for my shoes. For those wondering, I'm not a giant, I just have NYC pizza slices for feet.
justiner wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:50 pm Generous use of Seam Grip as a prehab to the abuse you put on your shoes. I use Mutants as an example but you can use these for any shoes obviously
I had no idea this was a thing! Thanks for the tip. Generally my uppers aren't ripping from rocks, but from the stress of my foot flexing the shoe. I think it might just be an issue with my running style...I jump down pretty far and slam on the brakes. Either way, I'm gonna try out Seam Grip on my next pair and see what it does for me! Thanks as usual for being such a great resource.
Jeff Valliere wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:32 am That said, a few others you might consider (if you can find them in your size):

Salomon XA Alpine Pro
Brooks Cascadia 16 (completely redone and one of my favorites for 2021)
Topo Mountain Racer 2 (don't be fooled by the name)
Hoka Speedgoat 4
Saucony Peregrine 10 or 11
Saucony Xodus 10 or 11
Saucony Mad River TR 2
VJ Maxx
Scott Kinabalu or Supertrac RC (though I have not tested their most recent versions, but hopefully soon)

If you want more info on any of these, just google the shoe name and RoadTrailRun for our reviews, or reach out with any other specific questions about these or any others you come across.
Awesome stuff, way more than I could have expected! I'll check out your site for sure. Looks like I'm going to be doing a deep dive. I fully expect I'll end up wearing one of your recs.
Conor wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:51 am I guess my view is in today's world i can score a shoe i know fits me well, provides great comfort on trail and when i buy on sale, costs less than gas for a trip outside of the front range. Perhaps it is gross over consumption, but I'm not just buying shoes to buy them. Do i wish my shoes lasted forever? Yes.
I totally get where you're coming from. I'm realizing my expectations might just be too high, and your input is helping me recalibrate. And I don't think it's gross overconsumption at all to get new shoes when you need them! Especially when the price is right like that. I am mostly looking for durability because I always seem to have to spend ~$130 for a new pair these days. I think my options are just limited by my shoe size.
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Re: Trail runners with a durable upper?

Post by John Prater »

Aphelion wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:45 pm Question for you guys posting these 400+ miles per pair: are you wearing them until you get holes completely through the sole? I only recently started tracking miles/pair, and after only ~130 miles my LS Bushidos have almost completely lost the lugs under the ball of the foot, and the rest of them are definitely worn down by half or so. Sure, they still have a some life left in them, but this noticeably degrades traction on anything but smooth rock. Are you just waiting until your shoes are completely flat and tractionless before calling them done?
Well, I posted a few 400+ mile examples, but that is definitely the exception for me; 300-350 is probably more typical. I think I generally retire a shoe when I have holes in the upper that are too big/annoying or when the outsole is worn down pretty much to nothing. But I've never really worn holes in the outsole (though a number of Hoka models I've worn in the past would have big rubber chunks of the outsole come off, leaving just foam underneath - that was not a problem with any of my Speedgoats, though).

Don't have any experience with the Bushidos, but I thought the lugs on those weren't as deep as some other Sportiva models out of the box (?). I do feel like the lugs under the forefoot on my Mutants are wearing pretty quickly, but I kind of expected that given the (softer?) rubber on those. 200 miles on one pair and a few of those lugs are almost gone. 100 miles on the other pair and the lugs are worn but still OK. Definitely becomes an issue on steep loose stuff, but I hope to get quite a few more miles out of both pairs.
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Re: Trail runners with a durable upper?

Post by AndrewLyonsGeibel »

Aphelion wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:45 pm Question for you guys posting these 400+ miles per pair: are you wearing them until you get holes completely through the sole? I only recently started tracking miles/pair, and after only ~130 miles my LS Bushidos have almost completely lost the lugs under the ball of the foot, and the rest of them are definitely worn down by half or so. Sure, they still have a some life left in them, but this noticeably degrades traction on anything but smooth rock. Are you just waiting until your shoes are completely flat and tractionless before calling them done?
In my case yes. They were basically racing slicks by the time I retired them to just yard work shoes. The left shoe has worn down to the midsole on the ball/forefoot. The heal looks almost new. I’m not a fast runner by any means and ran in toe shoes for several years so the lack of padding from the crushed midsole wasn’t really a big deal.
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Re: Trail runners with a durable upper?

Post by The Android »

As others mentioned, Altra can be pretty hit or miss. I got 400+ on a couple pairs of LPs, but then had foam destruction issues within 150 miles on Timps. I just avoid this brand now.

I used to be on a streak with Brooks Cascadias. I got 400-600 miles out many pairs of the 10-13 models. After the redesign in the 14 I stopped wearing them, but sounds like I need to try them again sometime. I also got a lot of miles out of a pair of Caldera 1s.

It's too bad LS don't fit your feet. Those are the ones that always last the longest for me, despite the worst abuses. Especially Mutants and Jackals.

I also recommend Jeff's website. I have bought a number of shoes based on his recommendations.
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