Road bike upgrade

Info on gear, conditioning, and preparation for hiking/climbing.
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mac hike
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Re: Road bike upgrade

Post by mac hike »

FWIW, as a general rule, the cost of lightweight bicycle parts is inversely proportional to their weight. Also, a ightweight bicycle cannot be propelled uphill any faster that the rider's ability to generate power. That being said, since increased weight reduces the speed at which one ascends, be sure to evacuate the bladder and colon and leave your water bottle in the car. That's at least 2 pounds you won't have to carry uphill.
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JDG7
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Re: Road bike upgrade

Post by JDG7 »

pvnisher wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:19 pm My old road bike weighs 23.5 lbs. All aluminum, 2004 Sora. Mechanically it's ok, and I already own it.

A new bike at $1000 will be the much the same weight, and nicer (carbon fork, disk brakes) but still do basically the same thing.
So I think upgrading might be the way to go. I should say that my goals are fitness in the flat lands, and then trying to get as good a place on hill climb races as possible, so weight matters. I don't plan on racing non-hill, so aero is great but weight is better in my case.

I found some clearance carbon gear like handlebar, fork, stem. All told, let's say $450, and I'd lose 1.5 pounds.

Or I could spend around that on wheels, and lose the same amount.

So what do you think would be a better improvement: a totally new front end, or new wheels?

Or other than tires and tubes, what's the best place to invest $500 to drop bike weight?

Or just forget it, maybe 1.5 pounds not that big of a deal for that much money?
great questions. good starting point. i purchased a new bike 27 months ago, buying much nicer bike than my skillset at the time. i knew i wanted to grow into the machine. So i researched for a year, focusing on something that matched my goals. i saved money and then went for it. The price was high (think 5k level) and it changed my life. i lost even more weight and got really good....going from untrained rider level to Cat 3 club level. i have put 17,000 miles on it in that time, and can say with confidence that if you plan to invest the time and energy into it, the cost can be the best investment long term.

So, the takeaway for you is, really drill down into what you want to do with your future machine. If it is a huge part of your future, save the money and get a new steed.

If you don't want to invest that much, and won't be very into it, then here is the best component return on investment, in order:
1) New wheels are the most important upgrade for weight ratio savings. Note that this comes with a huge cost, and may not be worth it if your frameset is worth half of your wheel cost.
Then 2) the groupset upgrade is the second best place to upgrade. Example: going up from a Tiagra to a 105 or Ultegra may not cost that much, given the improvement in performance and longevity.
3) Then lastly, consider upgrading the cockpit, then the seatpost.

Again, all of this is relative. The cost of the frame is your starting point. That is determined by your future goals and commitment level to those goals. Once you get those 2 drilled down, you are well on your way to a good decision. (i.e. if your bike is $3,200, then a groupset upgrade of $800 is well worth it. Alternatively, if your frame is $1,400, that same groupset upgrade is not worth it.)
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JDG7
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Re: Road bike upgrade

Post by JDG7 »

mac hike wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:22 pm FWIW, as a general rule, the cost of lightweight bicycle parts is inversely proportional to their weight. Also, a ightweight bicycle cannot be propelled uphill any faster that the rider's ability to generate power. That being said, since increased weight reduces the speed at which one ascends, be sure to evacuate the bladder and colon and leave your water bottle in the car. That's at least 2 pounds you won't have to carry uphill.
and you haven't lived until you pee yourself in a full downpour at over 30mph. In cold, wet shoulder season rides....yeah....you'll do it again.
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Re: Road bike upgrade

Post by spoony »

My two cents (based on 30 years of riding and racing on the road and dirt):

If your frame is still in good shape and you want to upgrade it (versus going with a new bike), I say go with newer/lighter wheels. The big issue with a wheel upgrade will be combability of the wheelset with the rest of the bike. Disc v. rim brake is one issue, but rim-brake rims are not super hard to find. The bigger issue will whether the freehub on your potential new wheelset (which will likely be 10, 11, or 12 speed if it is a modern wheelset) will work with your Sora cassette, derailleur, and shifter (which is probably 8-9 speed). You can probably find a nice set of NOS/used hubs that will work with 2004 Sora (look for Dura Ace hubs with the same number of speeds as your Sora), but it may require some E-Bay trawling, and you may not save much weight if you end up buying a 2004-era wheelset (a nice Dura Ace/Open Pro wheelset from that era will save you some weight over what I assume is on your bike now and they will ride great, but they will not be the deep dish aero 1200-gram wonder wheels that you can buy today).

Assuming you can find newer/lighter wheels that fit your bike, I think that update will definitely give you the most bang for your buck.
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Re: Road bike upgrade

Post by pvnisher »

I ended up getting a set of wheels (blackset race, clearance at $200), can't recall how much weight they save, but they're under 1500g, and then I needed new tires anyway so spent a few dollars more and got some nice ones.

Then found a carbon handlebar for like$50, and it's narrower, so more aero position.

So between the wheels, tires, lighter tape, and handlebar, and that ridiculous seat, I am out under $300, but I think am getting over 1.5 pounds or more saved.

My last upgrade will be either a smaller granny gear, or a big rear cogset to give me a really low ratio.
Then I can just spin up whatever hill I need.

Any tips on whether it's better to do granny gear or rear cogs?
Worried about my derailleur not fitting or something.
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cedica
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Re: Road bike upgrade

Post by cedica »

^ Sounds like very reasonable amount and money well spent.
pvnisher wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:11 am Any tips on whether it's better to do granny gear or rear cogs?
Worried about my derailleur not fitting or something.
Based on your rear derailleur model number, you should Google largest cog (sprocket) size and maximum tooth difference. Then find total drivetrain capacity number, which basically tells you how much chain slack the whole machinery can handle.

For Shimano 9-speed 105, for example (SS - short cage rear derailleur, GS - medium/long cage):
Shimano.png
Shimano.png (71.17 KiB) Viewed 1624 times
TomPierce
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Re: Road bike upgrade

Post by TomPierce »

I can't comment on the compatibility issue, not enough info. But there's lots online to sort that out and if you need to get retro parts, e.g. a 9 speed cassette, there's lots on ebay that should work fine. You might, however, have to be patient until things pop up for sale.

If your interest is in hill climbing the answer to your other question is clear, at least to me: get a smaller/lower front chainring. Less metal = less weight, important in a climbing bike. A larger rear cog, the size of a pie tin, will also add a lower range for gearing but also add more weight to your bike.

-Tom
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Bean
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Re: Road bike upgrade

Post by Bean »

TomPierce wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:45 amLess metal = less weight, important in a climbing bike.
Light stuff is nice (often for reasons more than just the lightness) but it doesn't ultimately matter much climbing outside of racing. 1kg only adds about a minute per hour when you're climbing.
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Re: Road bike upgrade

Post by pvnisher »

My trusty luggage scale says I'm between 19.7 and 20.3 lbs.
The fact that it varies by a half pound every time I do it makes me question the accuracy of the measurement by a fair margin!

I think it seems that adding a granny gear will be a better return on investment, and less weight vs more.

Hopefully I can get one that allows for a favorable ratio and doesn't need a longer derailleur cage.
I'm 3x8 gearing right now.

Totally don't mind losing some top end speed in any case, I'm never cranking in that high gear. If I need that gear I'm coasting!
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cedica
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Re: Road bike upgrade

Post by cedica »

pvnisher wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:45 pm I'm 3x8 gearing right now.
That's total classic. I'm still 2x8, but not climbing Rocky Mountains every day. Also check compact double road cranksets, small chainring on those is typically 34. (But I'm afraid that 3x front derailleur wouldn't work in that setup, you would have to find 2x specific).

Another useful fact, average liver burns one gram (4 kcal) of glucose per minute, about 240 kcal per hour. Don't bother ingesting more while on the bike, it will just make you heavier. =;
seano
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Re: Road bike upgrade

Post by seano »

pvnisher wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:45 pm My trusty luggage scale says I'm between 19.7 and 20.3 lbs...

I'm 3x8 gearing right now.
~20 lbs for an old road bike is pretty good. Modern race bikes are down under 14, but they're also up around $10 grand.

Another reason to get a smaller chainring rather than larger rear cog is that it keeps your gears more closely spaced, so you're more likely to have the right gear for whatever you're on. That's especially important with an old 8-speed cassette. If the derailleurs can handle it, a 12- or 13-28 with a 28-40-52 or 32-42-52 will give you plenty of range and reasonable spacing.
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cedica
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Re: Road bike upgrade

Post by cedica »

seano wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:39 am If the derailleurs can handle it, a 12- or 13-28 with a 28-40-52 or 32-42-52 will give you plenty of range and reasonable spacing.
I believe that Shimano didn't even have 28-cog road cassette back in the day, 13-26 was the largest. But there was 12-28 8-speed XTR and it worked even with short cage derailleurs, I've tried it. Just needed a bit more liberal setting of B screw.
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