I'd second trying Hokas. The only problem with them is that they aren't the best for harder scrambling, but they are great for hiking and easier scrambling. They seem to sooth a lot of foot problems.nyker wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:31 pmThanks, Justin are Hoka's known for their cushioning with those larger soles? I've never tried them.Justin9 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:24 am I have it badly. I've had luck with Hoka's. Seems that the cause of my flareups is high impact activities, especially if I play basketball. Anyways, I tried going back to my Sportivas a few weeks back and it was a big mistake. Hoka's are it for me. I wear the mid cushion trail runners.
Plantar Fasciitis
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis
I'm old, slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
Re: Plantar Fasciitis
nyker,nyker wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:12 am Seems I've have gotten plantar fasciiatis over the lockdown along with a heel spur.
I'm thinking it's linked to either worn orthotics in need of replacement or the change in my fitness activity and not going to the gym for 6 months, etc. so insofar as possible, I 've been trying to
replicate the same legwork in my apartment with some smaller weights/dumbbells.
Per my Dr. recommendation, I've been doing the suggested /normal calf stretches and massage, hamstring stretching, focus on insoles, etc. but hasn't really helped over the last month.
Most physical therapy places are still only doing remote work around here so that won't be of assistance for a while.
Not that internet solicitations of healthcare is ever recommended, but Googling resulted in the same stretches I'm doing.
Has anyone here gotten plantar fasciitis and fully recovered/fixed it without any invasive treatments/cortisone shots?
If so, would love to hear about your routine, exercises that worked for you (or didn't) and any thoughts.
Thanks in advance!
Yes, I had it...and it was bad! But I have recovered and not had issues for a long time. Let’s do a phone call. 719-661-4777 (Text me first.)
Britt
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis
i had a similar experience-- this takes a while to heal.
it got to a point this past winter where i had plantar fasciitis, achilles tendonitis, and arch strain all at the same time. but i mean if you're not overdoing it, are you doing it at all..?
while it hasn't 100% resolved itself, i can hike and walk mostly pain-free these days. the two things that helped me the most were custom inserts from https://app.upstep.com/ and daily yoga to stretch out my calf muscles and endure the excruciating pain of Toes Pose
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis
Lots of good advice here, including ice and stretching. You might also ask your Dr about daily doses of naprosin or ibuprofen for a while. For many people, myself included, recovery takes months to years. It will probably be a very long time before you get out of bed with no foot pain but with a little care and treatment you should be pain free for most of the day.
Also lots of quack remedies out there so caveat emptor.
Also lots of quack remedies out there so caveat emptor.
Roll No Rocks
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis
I had it for 4 or 5 years, from about 2000 to 2004 or 2005. I'm totally healed now without having any invasive treatment. I think I got it from walking on sidewalks with loafers, I really don't know. I began to wear various Good Feet inserts according to instructions for a long time and did the exercises, especially stair bouncing. Lots of it. Things were getting better and I started hiking. I improved so much I quit wearing inserts and hiked more and more. I haven't had any pain for 15 years.nyker wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:12 am Seems I've have gotten plantar fasciiatis over the lockdown along with a heel spur.
I'm thinking it's linked to either worn orthotics in need of replacement or the change in my fitness activity and not going to the gym for 6 months, etc. so insofar as possible, I 've been trying to
replicate the same legwork in my apartment with some smaller weights/dumbbells.
Per my Dr. recommendation, I've been doing the suggested /normal calf stretches and massage, hamstring stretching, focus on insoles, etc. but hasn't really helped over the last month.
Most physical therapy places are still only doing remote work around here so that won't be of assistance for a while.
Not that internet solicitations of healthcare is ever recommended, but Googling resulted in the same stretches I'm doing.
Has anyone here gotten plantar fasciitis and fully recovered/fixed it without any invasive treatments/cortisone shots?
If so, would love to hear about your routine, exercises that worked for you (or didn't) and any thoughts.
Thanks in advance!
"Unfortunately, the mountains had a way of dealing with overconfidence."
Laura M. Clark, in Wild Wanderer: Soloing Colorado's 200 Highest Peaks
Laura M. Clark, in Wild Wanderer: Soloing Colorado's 200 Highest Peaks
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis
My friend got me some SB Sox compression sleeves for my arches and they help a bit. I only wear them for a couple hours in the evening mostly.
Best thing for me is a "modified cobra" yoga pose with the toes curled under instead of flat feet. Really stretch through the heels. I even do this in bed a bit if my feet are killing me.
Hope it gets better for you!
Best thing for me is a "modified cobra" yoga pose with the toes curled under instead of flat feet. Really stretch through the heels. I even do this in bed a bit if my feet are killing me.
Hope it gets better for you!
I fight the battle that is already lost.
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis
I’m not completely healed after 3.5 years, but I don’t have pain that keeps me from doing what I want to do. Two things that made a big difference about 4 months after pain began: Good Feet inserts and a night splint.
I’ve been wearing the night splint (boot) every night that keeps my foot stretched and my toes stretched back. Helps with that pain in the morning (and I’m not as tight in that leg later in the day when warming up for activity).
Between the night splint and Good Feet orthotics, I can hike no problem. Some pain with the first day of hiking in new shoes. Running, however, still usually takes 30 minutes of good warm up, and I don’t really sprint often anymore.
Like I said, I’m not completely healed, but those two things make it so I can get by ok.
Good luck!
I’ve been wearing the night splint (boot) every night that keeps my foot stretched and my toes stretched back. Helps with that pain in the morning (and I’m not as tight in that leg later in the day when warming up for activity).
Between the night splint and Good Feet orthotics, I can hike no problem. Some pain with the first day of hiking in new shoes. Running, however, still usually takes 30 minutes of good warm up, and I don’t really sprint often anymore.
Like I said, I’m not completely healed, but those two things make it so I can get by ok.
Good luck!
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis
Yep, known for their cushion for sure. They have so many models now I could never recommend just one. Some are like normal shoes and others have massive marshmallow cushion. I wear the mid cushion trail runner challenger atr and they’re decent for scrambling up to low class 5 for me.nyker wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:31 pmThanks, Justin are Hoka's known for their cushioning with those larger soles? I've never tried them.Justin9 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:24 am I have it badly. I've had luck with Hoka's. Seems that the cause of my flareups is high impact activities, especially if I play basketball. Anyways, I tried going back to my Sportivas a few weeks back and it was a big mistake. Hoka's are it for me. I wear the mid cushion trail runners.
- Burkart
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis
I had a severe case of acute plantar fasciitis earlier this summer that has since resolved. I say 'acute,' because it resulted from a single instance of overuse, which affected the plantar fascia, but seems to have been at least somewhat distinct from the months long, chronic version some people seem to get. Basically, I went on a hiking vacation in Washington, forgot my usual hiking boots, and proceeded to hike almost the entire Hoh Rainforest trail in a day (~32 miles). My left foot was in such pain the next day that I had to limp the remaining miles to my car while taking sit-down breaks every eighth of a mile.
A few things helped/hurt over the next few days. On the one hand, I scrapped my backpacking plans and stayed at a hippie commune farm; a girl there invited me on a short hiking adventure and suggested I leave my shoes behind, which I did, because when in Rome... Surprisingly, the cold, uneven river cobbles felt really good on my feet - so good that I almost forgot the pain. Turns out, this is similar to what some people online recommend about 'rolling' your feet on a cold water bottle, the mechanism for which some podiatrists have suggested is dislodgement of scar tissue from the plantar fascia - no idea if there's any truth to that. Of course it still hurt like a mother $#@%*! the next day, and it deteriorated further after I limped up a couple passes in the North Cascades - I wasn't about to let my stupid foot ruin all my vacation plans. Also purchased a couple of cheap insoles to help with the limping.
When I got back, I doubled down to try and fix my gimp foot before it wrecked my summer 14er plans - in two weeks I had a trip to knock out five San Juan peaks in a weekend with some friends. I spent a few hours poring over everything online, including those terrifying testimonials about multiyear plantar fasciitis - yikes! But I did find one guy with a similar issue who claimed to have resolved it within the two weeks before his planned marathon, so I followed his advice, and it seemed to work. My recommendations:
1. The painful inflammation results from microtears in the plantar fascia, which is a fibrous tissue that absorbs shock. If the antagonizing factor has been removed, the only way to actually heal it seems to be to minimize use during the initial healing stage, however long that may be. So I limped on my toes and lounged around for two whole weeks. I did nothing to stop the inflammation (ibuprofen/icing) because I suspect that acute inflammation may actually play a role in the healing itself... just a hunch. Basically, this is what you would do for a tendon or ligament that is inflamed from something like weight lifting - rest.
2. I used insoles/orthotics whenever I had to walk somewhere in my shoes, to avoid shocking the plantar fascia. As soon as I recovered, however, I immediately stopped, because I think the podiatrical obsession with orthotics is part of the problem. If humans needed orthotics to hike or run, I like to think we would have evolved to have them (hint: we probably did, it's called the plantar fascia). Like most bodily tissues, if you don't use it, you lose it, and a plantar fascia that has never been toughened up by work is going to be more prone to injury when you finally do rely on it. This idea is explored in that McDougall book, Born to Run. It doesn't seem to have gained acceptance in podiatry and I haven't found many studies on it, but the idea seems intuitive to me.
3. I tried every supplemental suggestion, like calf stretches (this may get at the root cause of plantar fasciitis for some people, but it didn't do much for me), rolling the foot, and buying compression socks. I feel like the compression socks may have helped with hiking before my feet had completely recovered.
Long story short, I made it up three 14ers after two weeks of extreme rest (no cheating), and completely recovered after one more week of rest; this was possible in large part because of remote work capability; I imagine standing on your feet at work all day could result in chronic plantar fasciitis. One last note: I am in no way a follower of 'alternative' medicine, but something just smells quacky about podiatry. I have a hard time believing that humans have devolved so much in the 50-or-so years since supportive shoes came on the market that we cannot walk/run long distances without purchasing pricey orthotics. Have you ever seen a mustang wear orthotics?
A few things helped/hurt over the next few days. On the one hand, I scrapped my backpacking plans and stayed at a hippie commune farm; a girl there invited me on a short hiking adventure and suggested I leave my shoes behind, which I did, because when in Rome... Surprisingly, the cold, uneven river cobbles felt really good on my feet - so good that I almost forgot the pain. Turns out, this is similar to what some people online recommend about 'rolling' your feet on a cold water bottle, the mechanism for which some podiatrists have suggested is dislodgement of scar tissue from the plantar fascia - no idea if there's any truth to that. Of course it still hurt like a mother $#@%*! the next day, and it deteriorated further after I limped up a couple passes in the North Cascades - I wasn't about to let my stupid foot ruin all my vacation plans. Also purchased a couple of cheap insoles to help with the limping.
When I got back, I doubled down to try and fix my gimp foot before it wrecked my summer 14er plans - in two weeks I had a trip to knock out five San Juan peaks in a weekend with some friends. I spent a few hours poring over everything online, including those terrifying testimonials about multiyear plantar fasciitis - yikes! But I did find one guy with a similar issue who claimed to have resolved it within the two weeks before his planned marathon, so I followed his advice, and it seemed to work. My recommendations:
1. The painful inflammation results from microtears in the plantar fascia, which is a fibrous tissue that absorbs shock. If the antagonizing factor has been removed, the only way to actually heal it seems to be to minimize use during the initial healing stage, however long that may be. So I limped on my toes and lounged around for two whole weeks. I did nothing to stop the inflammation (ibuprofen/icing) because I suspect that acute inflammation may actually play a role in the healing itself... just a hunch. Basically, this is what you would do for a tendon or ligament that is inflamed from something like weight lifting - rest.
2. I used insoles/orthotics whenever I had to walk somewhere in my shoes, to avoid shocking the plantar fascia. As soon as I recovered, however, I immediately stopped, because I think the podiatrical obsession with orthotics is part of the problem. If humans needed orthotics to hike or run, I like to think we would have evolved to have them (hint: we probably did, it's called the plantar fascia). Like most bodily tissues, if you don't use it, you lose it, and a plantar fascia that has never been toughened up by work is going to be more prone to injury when you finally do rely on it. This idea is explored in that McDougall book, Born to Run. It doesn't seem to have gained acceptance in podiatry and I haven't found many studies on it, but the idea seems intuitive to me.
3. I tried every supplemental suggestion, like calf stretches (this may get at the root cause of plantar fasciitis for some people, but it didn't do much for me), rolling the foot, and buying compression socks. I feel like the compression socks may have helped with hiking before my feet had completely recovered.
Long story short, I made it up three 14ers after two weeks of extreme rest (no cheating), and completely recovered after one more week of rest; this was possible in large part because of remote work capability; I imagine standing on your feet at work all day could result in chronic plantar fasciitis. One last note: I am in no way a follower of 'alternative' medicine, but something just smells quacky about podiatry. I have a hard time believing that humans have devolved so much in the 50-or-so years since supportive shoes came on the market that we cannot walk/run long distances without purchasing pricey orthotics. Have you ever seen a mustang wear orthotics?
- rob runkle
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis
I had PF for 8 years, and ultimately got rid of it through barefoot running. But, that took a year to build up. Not something that someone can jump into quickly. And, also not something that someone should do while currently injured.
Things that always worked at least a little bit:
1) I always landed on over the counter orthodics - powersteps or superfeet. The custom orthodics never worked for me as a runner, and usually ended up with hot spots. This was the #1 magic solution that helped me, but unfortunately, I became dependent on them. If I forgot my inserts, or wore shoes without them, the PF would flare up again.
2) massage your own feet, with hands, or rolling with a golf ball (there are some for plantar facitis)
3) I always hated wearing it, but a night splint helps from reinjuring when you step out of bed first thing in the morning
4) If not a night splint, then get out of bed very slowly, stretch gently and massage before getting out of bed
5) Calf stretches when the injury has subsided (inflammation reduced)
BF running:
Once the inflammation was down, I very slowly began the BF running. 0.25 mi at first, building to 0.5 mi over weeks, then 1 mile after a few months. Now, I can run 3-5 miles BF without any issue. And, the PF is gone forever. I haven't used orthodics in 10 years now.
Things that always worked at least a little bit:
1) I always landed on over the counter orthodics - powersteps or superfeet. The custom orthodics never worked for me as a runner, and usually ended up with hot spots. This was the #1 magic solution that helped me, but unfortunately, I became dependent on them. If I forgot my inserts, or wore shoes without them, the PF would flare up again.
2) massage your own feet, with hands, or rolling with a golf ball (there are some for plantar facitis)
3) I always hated wearing it, but a night splint helps from reinjuring when you step out of bed first thing in the morning
4) If not a night splint, then get out of bed very slowly, stretch gently and massage before getting out of bed
5) Calf stretches when the injury has subsided (inflammation reduced)
BF running:
Once the inflammation was down, I very slowly began the BF running. 0.25 mi at first, building to 0.5 mi over weeks, then 1 mile after a few months. Now, I can run 3-5 miles BF without any issue. And, the PF is gone forever. I haven't used orthodics in 10 years now.
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis
I got planter Fasciitis last summer. It was surprising how painful it was. I stopped running completely for a few weeks. Then I got some Hokas and eased back into running very slowly. I don't think anything really helps except time and being patient (which, i realize, no one wants to hear). You have to cut way back on running and allow yourself time to recover. For me, running on the treadmill helped a lot as I was trying to ease back into it. Seems there is far less pounding and stress on a treadmill vs running outside. And, yeah, running on the treadmill sucks compared to running outside.
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis
i've been dealing with suspected PF in my right foot since february. haven't had it professionally diagnosed, so can't say for sure that it's PF, or a heel spur, or some other foot injury, but it shows some of the classic PF signs. it's worst first thing getting out of bed in the morning, though luckily, i don't get the stabbing/searing pain some people report, for me it just feels tight/sore, and mostly goes away after a couple minutes of activity. it can also get sore during the day if i've been sitting around or off my feet too long, though never as bad in the morning. running doesn't hurt, but after a long run or hike it will start to get sore again and be worse that night. i do a lot of icing post-run, rolling my foot with a frozen water bottle for 5 minutes, followed by alternating ice and heat pads. tried the night splint but it really irritated me, i'm ordering a new one that i hope will be less irritating. also, rolling with a massage ball periodically during the day, and doing calf stretches/raises, though i probably need to do a lot more; i was doing more stretching last year and didn't have this problem.
for the most part, it's a minor nuisance right now, and i'm just trying to manage it and keep it from getting worse. i'm training for an october marathon (possibly real, possibly virtual) and i figure i'll just keep training as long as it doesn't get bad enough to make me stop (typical runner's mentality). once the race is finished, i'm shutting it down and focusing on letting it heal completely.
even though i've been focused on running this year, i developed the injury hiking, very similar to what Burkart described earlier. i typically have some foot soreness after longer (12+ mile) hikes, but it goes away within a few hours post-hike. but in february, i had done a particularly long hike, and had been wearing a pair of boots i hadn't worn much recently (i hiked in them extensively the previous summer, but had since switched to a different brand/pair over the winter). after the hike, my usual foot soreness went away in my left foot, but remained in the heel of my right foot. it began feeling better by the end of the week, but then another long hike (in my usual boots) brought it back again. i took the following week off, and it got somewhat better, but never went away entirely. in a normal year, i probably would've taken more time off from hiking/running, but with gyms shut down due to the pandemic, my alternative exercise options were too limited and so i stuck with running through the summer. i did do more biking in the earlier part of the summer, but with all my other 2020 goals gone down the toilet due to this pandemic, my marathon goal was about all i had left to motivate me to do anything, so i figured i'd give it a shot for as long as i could. so far so not-too-bad.
one other thing: i've read some debate over whether plantar 'fasciitis' is really the correct term, particularly for chronic pain. -itis injuries are typically short-term, inflammation-related injuries; once that initial inflammation injury subsides, usually after a couple weeks or so, some say it should be more accurately referred to as fasciosis, indicating long-term tissue damage that fails to heal normally. that can change the type of treatment that is recommended. treatments that are intended to reduce inflammation may not be as useful once it enters the fasciosis stage. in my case, i suspect the initial acute injury resolved long ago, but the ongoing tightness/soreness is from scar tissue that binds the tissues and tightens up with inactivity. i can definitely feel a difference rolling my left vs. my right heel, the injured right heel tissue feels more uneven or "crinkly" when rolling it. at this stage, i feel like i will need to find ways to break up that scar tissue, and allow new and improved healing tissue to form in its place. that's why i only ice immediately post-run, to deal with any new tissue trauma; the rest of the time, massage and stretching i'm hoping will be more effective. also, heat encourages healing, so more heat therapy may be helpful once the injury has reached the chronic stage.
for the most part, it's a minor nuisance right now, and i'm just trying to manage it and keep it from getting worse. i'm training for an october marathon (possibly real, possibly virtual) and i figure i'll just keep training as long as it doesn't get bad enough to make me stop (typical runner's mentality). once the race is finished, i'm shutting it down and focusing on letting it heal completely.
even though i've been focused on running this year, i developed the injury hiking, very similar to what Burkart described earlier. i typically have some foot soreness after longer (12+ mile) hikes, but it goes away within a few hours post-hike. but in february, i had done a particularly long hike, and had been wearing a pair of boots i hadn't worn much recently (i hiked in them extensively the previous summer, but had since switched to a different brand/pair over the winter). after the hike, my usual foot soreness went away in my left foot, but remained in the heel of my right foot. it began feeling better by the end of the week, but then another long hike (in my usual boots) brought it back again. i took the following week off, and it got somewhat better, but never went away entirely. in a normal year, i probably would've taken more time off from hiking/running, but with gyms shut down due to the pandemic, my alternative exercise options were too limited and so i stuck with running through the summer. i did do more biking in the earlier part of the summer, but with all my other 2020 goals gone down the toilet due to this pandemic, my marathon goal was about all i had left to motivate me to do anything, so i figured i'd give it a shot for as long as i could. so far so not-too-bad.
one other thing: i've read some debate over whether plantar 'fasciitis' is really the correct term, particularly for chronic pain. -itis injuries are typically short-term, inflammation-related injuries; once that initial inflammation injury subsides, usually after a couple weeks or so, some say it should be more accurately referred to as fasciosis, indicating long-term tissue damage that fails to heal normally. that can change the type of treatment that is recommended. treatments that are intended to reduce inflammation may not be as useful once it enters the fasciosis stage. in my case, i suspect the initial acute injury resolved long ago, but the ongoing tightness/soreness is from scar tissue that binds the tissues and tightens up with inactivity. i can definitely feel a difference rolling my left vs. my right heel, the injured right heel tissue feels more uneven or "crinkly" when rolling it. at this stage, i feel like i will need to find ways to break up that scar tissue, and allow new and improved healing tissue to form in its place. that's why i only ice immediately post-run, to deal with any new tissue trauma; the rest of the time, massage and stretching i'm hoping will be more effective. also, heat encourages healing, so more heat therapy may be helpful once the injury has reached the chronic stage.
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