Unleashed dogs in wilderness

[Chicago Transplant]

Jeff, you hit it on the head there. Its the fact that all the people whose dogs are out of control think their dog is an angel that gets all of the well behaved dogs "punished" by leash laws. In fact in my volunteer duties, when I have told people about the leash requirement in Eagles Nest, all of the owners of well behaved dogs say "sure no problem", and put their dog on leash and go on their merry way. The ones whose dogs are wet, covered in mud, jumping on me, or running after some small animal are the ones whose owners question why they have to put their dog on leash and make up reasons why their dog is better than everyone else's. Honestly, its not an inconvenience to leash a well behaved dog because they aren't constantly tugging you in all directions. The ones running all over the place are the ones that people don't want to leash because they hate being tugged around by their dog all day.

When I run into the people on trail will the well behaved off leash dogs, I let them know its a popular trail and there are other dogs on trail that may not be as well behaved as theirs and unfortunately the best way to manage it from our (ranger's) side is that everyone has to have their dog on leash. There is rarely much discussion with those owners. I have been on trail before and ran across a loose dog with no owner, turned out to have wandered a mile and a half up the trail from the house at the bottom, sort of the Horton of the Booth Creek trail I guess. I have also ran across a couple who were tending to injuries to their dog who was bit when chasing an animal, and another that was bit by another off leash dog. A co worker of mine had their dog quilled by a porkie on the Gore Creek trail. The leash may be inconvenient sometimes, but its better than lost or injured. That and the reminder that if I was a "real ranger" they could have been fines $125, usually is enough to get them to put their dog on leash. Of course I have no doubt that when they are out of sight, they just take them off again

[randalmartin]

As someone that has done some volunteer hours on peaks for CFI and talked with owners, the owners always think their dog is different and their pet shouldn't have to be on a leash.

First, thank you for your volunteer work.

Sometimes this is absolutely correct. I could come up with numerous examples of this being the case and if one uses observational skills and better judgement, it becomes clear that the majority of dogs are fine off leash, it is the few bad apples that spoil it for everyone unfortunately.

Understood. The situation I had occur was a lady from Boulder that told me her dogs were on voice control and were certified through some program in Boulder that does the training. This was at the Missouri Gulch TH. A few hours later her dogs were chasing wildlife up higher. She was calling but they weren't responding. It just seems that too many owners are not really honest with themselves about the capabilities of their dogs.

[Jeff Valliere]

But humans posses the ability to yell out, as well as to take notice of someone below them that may be in the fall line, and take extra care with foot placement.

Humans do for sure posses these 3 abilities, but it has been my experience that they do not always implement them. Too many times I have been nearly taken out by rocks that were dislodged by humans above who were not being careful, nor did they take the initiative to yell a warning.

There are many peaks/routes where I personally would not take a dog, but I would expect that anyone taking a dog up a peak such as Pyramid, would be especially tuned into every move the dog makes and would be just as likely, if not more likely to be careful, consider anyone below and yell out any rock warnings on behalf of the dog. I think it is more a variable specific to people more so than it pertaining to dogs.

[Jeff Valliere]

Understood. The situation I had occur was a lady from Boulder that told me her dogs were on voice control and were certified through some program in Boulder that does the training. This was at the Missouri Gulch TH. A few hours later her dogs were chasing wildlife up higher. She was calling but they weren't responding. It just seems that too many owners are not really honest with themselves about the capabilities of their dogs.

Unfortunately, this does happen, I see it too and it is maddening from the perspective of a conscientious and responsible dog owner (at least I truly believe that I am). I am similarly frustrated, as a lifelong cyclist, to see riders flagrantly disobeying traffic laws and putting themselves and others at risk. It makes us all look bad and then it blurs the line between the good and the bad. Just try to explain to the motorists that you are one of the good ones, or conversely, explain to the ranger writing you a ticket, that your dog is one of the good ones. Unfortunately, there is no way to truly know. It is a flawed system and sometimes unfair.

[CHWitte]

Humans do for sure posses these 3 abilities, but it has been my experience that they do not always implement them.

This is not an excuse, and should never attempted to be used as an excuse by some people on this forum to argue in favor of unleashed dogs.

The shortcomings of humans do not therefore endorse unleashed dogs in what they do.

[Jeff Valliere]

Humans do for sure posses these 3 abilities, but it has been my experience that they do not always implement them.

This is not an excuse, and should never attempted to be used as an excuse by some people on this forum to argue in favor of unleashed dogs.

The shortcomings of humans do not therefore endorse unleashed dogs in what they do.

I think you misunderstood me here, I was simply relaying my perception based on my own personal experiences and encourage personal responsibility, with or without a dog.

[Jon Frohlich]

Sigh.

1470096_10152699677369099_9164160650624979529_n.jpg (124.81 KiB) Viewed 2172 times

[procomsignathid]

Was headed up Princeton on Friday and was completely wiped out (think I had a cold). Was not feeling very strong going up the summit block, and was getting frustrated by the route finding.

Then this lovely dog comes up (was with a party about 20 mins behind me) and I just followed her to the summit... She was great at route finding!

Lightened my spirits and got to share the summit with this dog for about 20-30 mins before any others showed up. Very cool dog!

There's the spirit of the law and the letter of it... I'm sure those complaining about leashes always go the speed limit too?

[CHWitte]

There's the spirit of the law and the letter of it... I'm sure those complaining about leashes always go the speed limit too?

Another excuse used to justify unleashed dogs...

Anyone else want to justify unleashed dogs by using human shortcomings as the justifiable reasoning?

[procomsignathid]

My point being that if the dog isn't hurting anything, why all the fuss?

In 30 years of hiking I think of run into 2 aggressive dogs, and both were leashed.

[CHWitte]

My point being that if the dog isn't hurting anything, why all the fuss?

In 30 years of hiking I think of run into 2 aggressive dogs, and both were leashed.

Nobody can predict whether a dog is going to hurt anything or anyone, not even the dog owner.

[oldschool]

Control that which you can. Let go of that which you can't. As you come across dog owners that frequently do not have their dogs on a leash, you can berate them all you want, preach to them all you want, quote the law, write them a ticket, yell at the top of your lungs. Guess what. You'll do what you want, they'll do the same.

Do you think yelling at them will change their behavior? It might if they're truly unaware of the rules. If they're aware of the rules but choose to disregard them, then what? You have no control over the behavior of others.

By all means, speak up if you see it fit and just. Do the same to the people that litter, poop in the woods improperly, park in areas they aren't supposed to, and countless other things. Be prepared to have someone tell you the STFU and mind your own business.

Why the "poor" attitude on my part? Too much time in the CO mtns with douchebags? Could be. Too many people just preach back about minding their own business? Maybe. If I come across a dog, or any situation I don't feel good about, what am I gonna do? I can choose to walk around the dog, not ascend the slope because there is an unleashed dog above me, turn around, confront the owner.

The choice is mine. The dog owner has made his.