Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Dogs, dogs and even some cats
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ChrisRoberts
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by ChrisRoberts »

Bad dog owners are just a subset of the real problem, which is inconsiderate people who use the wilderness. Just this week we've had threads on:

People not using a leash when it's clear they should be(chasing wildlife, for instance)
People blasting music on a trail for everyone to hear(or suggesting they use headphones, which concentrates their obliviousness and creates other problems)
People not stopping to acknowledge a fellow climber who's injured
People golfing off a summit

People are looking to cut corners everywhere. Even if we somehow get everyone to use a leash, will they hike their blue bags out? Will people pack out their own crap? Will I stop rolling through stop signs? I don't think this thread was intended to cast sin upon anyone, maybe just remind people who may not know there are regulations and are happy to follow them.
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procomsignathid
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by procomsignathid »

ChrisRoberts wrote:People golfing off a summit
Haha wow. Link? That's a new one (at least to me)
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CHWitte
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by CHWitte »

Jeff Valliere wrote:
CHWitte wrote:
procomsignathid wrote:You could say that about people too...
So dogs are of the same importance and on the same level as humans? We have really digressed in the evolution of man...
Yep, that is the core of the argument here, you figured us out :lol:
We've heard it over and over again from people on the forum in what they imply. My dog is more important than another human being and I'll do what I want because I can. Humans knock down rocks therefore my unleashed dog should be able to also. Nobody can do anything about my unleashed dog and my dog doesn't cause any trouble so I don't care about what you think. A majority of unleashed dogs are good so forget about the laws and respecting others. This is exactly what has been argued.

All I ask is for some common courtesy from people. I'm a dog owner but I also respect others in their climbing experience. Not everyone loves dogs. This is exactly what the CFI Youtube video said.
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CHWitte
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by CHWitte »

ChrisRoberts wrote:Bad dog owners are just a subset of the real problem, which is inconsiderate people who use the wilderness. Just this week we've had threads on:

People not using a leash when it's clear they should be(chasing wildlife, for instance)
People blasting music on a trail for everyone to hear(or suggesting they use headphones, which concentrates their obliviousness and creates other problems)
People not stopping to acknowledge a fellow climber who's injured
People golfing off a summit

People are looking to cut corners everywhere. Even if we somehow get everyone to use a leash, will they hike their blue bags out? Will people pack out their own crap? Will I stop rolling through stop signs? I don't think this thread was intended to cast sin upon anyone, maybe just remind people who may not know there are regulations and are happy to follow them.
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by Jeff Valliere »

CHWitte wrote: All I ask is for some common courtesy from people. I'm a dog owner but I also respect others in their climbing experience. Not everyone loves dogs. This is exactly what the CFI Youtube video said.
This we can agree upon entirely and I appreciate the message given in the CFI video. It basically boils down to (and reinforced in the video) maintaining control of your dog. Some dogs require a leash for that to be the case, other dogs do not need a leash. This fact in no way implies disregard for nature or fellow hikers.
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appleseeds
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by appleseeds »

CHWitte wrote:All I ask is for some common courtesy from people. I'm a dog owner but I also respect others in their climbing experience. Not everyone loves dogs.
I've had dogs jump on me, barrel up a trail barking at me and stop just short after their owners yelled enough, had dogs sniff all over me... I've never had a person try any of that, nor do I find it reassuring to hear "it's ok, she's friendly" or "she's never done that before." Thank you to those of you who take the time to appropriately train your dog and leash when needed.
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by Chicago Transplant »

Well behaved dogs are always welcome, if a dog is well behaved and off leash I only address the regulation when in uniform on patrol. Part of our mission is to educate the public about the regulations. It is also why I chime in on-line when Wilderness regulation issues come up. I personally don't care if well behaved dogs are on or off leash, but its not up to me, I don't write the regulations.

Your dog may be well behaved, but others on the trail - maybe not. Having the regs require all dogs to be on leash helps alleviate the whole "my dog is better than your dog" thing. Honestly, your dog may very well truly be better behaved, but that is not the point. It is not up to me (or a full time ranger for that matter) to judge how well behaved a dog is or is not. Everyone gets a leash in certain areas and that should in theory alleviate the arguments that would arise from the "why does my dog have to be on leash but not their dog" that would happen otherwise. Another consideration for areas with leash regulations is that people who don't like loose dogs running up to them and sniffing them, or jumping on them etc like to hike in those areas specifically because they know dogs are supposed to be on leash and in theory won't do those things.

When I talk to people on the trail about the leashes I tell them the same thing I will tell you. After an introduction I will say that we have a leash regulation here in Eagles Nest Wilderness and I would appreciate it if you put your dog on leash. To a person whose dog seems under control, I will continue with something like I appreciate that your dog seems to be under control, but unfortunately the regulation here is for physical control. This can be a popular area and their may be others on trail with their dogs who may not be, and its best to have everyone follow the same regulation while visiting here. To a person whose dog is not in control, I will say something about chasing wildlife, harassing other trail users, mention what the fines are, tell them about the risk of their dog getting injured, etc depending on the situation. Usually they are more interested in the fine than any of the rest. I guess money talks!
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by AlexeyD »

I'm a dog owner, and love mountaineering and hiking with my dog. That said, when it is/isn't appropriate to take your dog off leash is a matter of judgment and common sense. If it's against the rules, then that settles it (and I probably won't take my dog at all, since having her on leash for a day out in the mountains is a pain and kind of defeats the purpose). If it's not against the rules, but can endanger other climbers (i.e. the rock example), or is a hazard to the dog or wildlife, I won't take her. If it's not against the rules, is not a danger (to others or the dog), and the very fact that there's a dog off leash bothers someone...well, that's not really my concern. But...it's absolutely unacceptable and unfair to others to have a dog knocking rocks down on people. At some point, as a dog owner, people need to come to terms with the fact that you just can't do EVERYTHING with your dog - that's part of the bargain.
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by Tejonmax »

I always hike with my dog and he is never allowed to be a problem to other hikers. He actually doesn't like people much and stays away on his own. I was thinking about this problem on a hike one day and realized what the problem is. It is what bad owners believe it means to have their dog under control. Their idea seems to be....."come here, come here, come here.....oh sorry about that".
But they don't actually make any move to get to the dog. When my dog is on the leash it is very irritating when other dogs run up to him. When he is off leash I will always put him back on the leash when other hikers with dogs approach to avoid any problems. Everyone always says their dog is friendly. There is NO WAY to know how two dogs that don't know each other will react to each other. Two "friendly" dogs alone may not be that way together. I don't want my dog injured by another dog. A dog trainer once told me that you should never, ever let your dog come nose to nose with a dog you don't know.
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by SchralpTheGnar »

I was once hiking on a peak and a dog bit my leg so I kicked it in the face, the owner actually got upset at me so I punched him in the face. True story.
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by greenhorn1 »

procomsignathid wrote:My point being that if the dog isn't hurting anything, why all the fuss?

In 30 years of hiking I think of run into 2 aggressive dogs, and both were leashed.
We were hiking outside Silverton on a popular trail and a large unleashed, aggressive dog came up to our small Miniature Pincher who was on a leash and tried to bite it - it growled and snapped a few inches from our dogs face. The owners were far back and didn't do anything so we gave the dog a boot. They owners were offended we touched their dog. We were scared it was going to attack our dog or two kids who were walking right with us.
We already lost one dog to an unleashed dog attack and paid over 3K in vet bills trying to save it's life. People think it's just about being a nuisance, but it can have much more severe consequences when dogs are off-leash. We don't take our dog on trails anymore it's not worth the risk.
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by mtgirl »

greenhorn1 wrote:
procomsignathid wrote:My point being that if the dog isn't hurting anything, why all the fuss?

In 30 years of hiking I think of run into 2 aggressive dogs, and both were leashed.
We were hiking outside Silverton on a popular trail and a large unleashed, aggressive dog came up to our small Miniature Pincher who was on a leash and tried to bite it - it growled and snapped a few inches from our dogs face. The owners were far back and didn't do anything so we gave the dog a boot. They owners were offended we touched their dog. We were scared it was going to attack our dog or two kids who were walking right with us.
We already lost one dog to an unleashed dog attack and paid over 3K in vet bills trying to save it's life. People think it's just about being a nuisance, but it can have much more severe consequences when dogs are off-leash. We don't take our dog on trails anymore it's not worth the risk.
I can relate, greenhorn1. A few years back, I was running with my leashed 10 month old yellow lab, and we were both attacked and bitten by an aggressive pit bull that seemed to charge out of nowhere. Luckily, the owner covered both my hospital bills and my dog's vet bills. Now I don't run or walk my dog without a canister of pepper spray. I've had to use it three times since then on aggressive dogs trying to bite me or my dog. I can say that the pepper spray is highly effective, and it's prevented injury from me and my dog. The dogs can't get away quick enough after being sprayed.
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