Dogs off Leash - specifically in wilderness areas

[JQDivide]

I really don't care if someone leashes their dog or not. But, I have one request of the off leash crowd...please understand that some dogs on leash don't handle off leash dogs running up to them. Please, if you see someone with dogs on leash, hold onto your dog while we pass.

Thanks!

You are correct.

Many dogs on leashes do act differently, I guess they think they are restrained and feel threatened. Some of them will bark more or get more aggressive, or just act differently.

[Crestoner]

Sometimes it's the irritated complainers about dogs who don't seem to know about the dog rules...or think they're "special" (to use Urban Snowshoer's terminology) and have some right to not be bothered by whatever from other people. In many public recreational areas...including some wilderness areas...the requirement is that the dog(s) be under control, and being under verbal control is completely legit.

While I was hiking into Chicago Basin two weeks ago, several people on their way down gave me the "dogs are not allowed in CB" warning/lecture (guess I don't have the right to not be irritated, either...). That is completely untrue. And, I had my dog on a leash up there. The volunteer rangers played with him on our way in and on our way out.

I get it that people get annoyed by the bad behavior of some dog owners and/or unleashed dogs...and other things, too (e.g., cell phones, cigarettes, doobiage, indiscreet urination, summit hoggin', prayer flags, group prayers, whiny kids, singing, drinking). Maybe a summer weekend on a close-to-Denver fourteener is not the best plan.

[tlongpine]

I am a huge dog fan so don't take me wrong here but I have a couple issues with them on the trail.

1.) The bags of waste left behind by owners, I think this has already been beat to death on another thread. I have seen a few people that have their dog carry out their own waste in a pack, brilliant. I think if you leave behind a bag you intended to pick up but couldn't find it or forgot you must now pick up 10 bags you find on the trail to be even.

2.) Dogs off leash that are not disciplined enough to be off leash, or are off leash in wilderness areas. Wilderness areas call out that all dogs should be on a leash and I rarely see them on leash. I wonder if the dog owners are just unaware, or don't care? Usually it would not bother me that much, but a few weeks ago I was hiking up Evans and at the top of Mt. Spalding I set down my pack, opened it up, grabbed my water bottle and lifted my head to check out the view and take a drink. I then turned around to see someones dog had their head in my bag going to town on my beef jerky. I scolded him and got him out of my bag. His owner then came up the trail a few minutes behind him, I told them what happened and their response was "guess you shouldn't leave your pack open." I told him how there was a leash law in the wilderness areas and he blew me off and continued up the trail. Has anyone ever seen them enforcing this rule? I know in Bear Creek Lake Park I have seen them issue a dozen citations in about 20 minutes. The amount of wildlife near maintained trails has really seemed to diminish over the years and I have to think this is also in part to dogs being off leash. What do you think about dogs being off leash in wilderness areas?

It sounds like both your problems actually have more to do with the behavior of people.

[Jeff Valliere]

Yeah, this has been hashed out a zillion times here on this site and elsewhere, but I am sure with a little constructive conversation, we can get it all resolved this time .

Some dogs truly are special, well maybe not special (at least not in the eyes of a ranger), but especially well behaved with very conscientious owners. In these instances, I see no problems having a dog off leash once away from the busy parking lot.
Problem is though, is that everyone THINKS their dog is special, thinks that they are a responsible owner and many just simply do not care. It ruins it for those that do care and are responsible. As much as I would like there to be a regulation in place which punished poor behavior (with a ticket) and rewarded good behavior (the right to go off leash), I don't think that will happen any time soon. Boulder OSMP has a green tag program (which has some pros/cons and is changing somewhat in Jan. 2015), but generally works well. Dog owners watch a video (though soon will be required to attend a class) and pay a fee for the right to go off leash on designated trails. Though not a perfect system, I think this adds a level of responsibility and awareness.

However, it is simply much easier to throw down a blanket law "no dogs" or "dogs must be on leash" than to implement a well thought out, fair and sustainable solution.

My philosophy in these matters is "no harm, no foul" and regarding petty matters like leash laws is to follow the spirit of the law vs. the letter of the law. Most of us do it to a certain degree, driving 5 or 10 mph over the speed limit when conditions warrant, rolling stops when nobody is in sight, etc....

I am right on with Crestoner's comments below as well, there is bad behavior out there in all forms, perhaps we should implement laws to keep these ill behaved people contained, or on a leash at least

[BillMiddlebrook]

Well put, Jeff.

Resolved. Locked