Dog on Class 3s or Difficult Class 2s??

Dogs, dogs and even some cats
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cheeseburglar
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Re: Dog on Class 3s or Difficult Class 2s??

Post by cheeseburglar »

Oman wrote:Ha. Time for the annual dog-in-a-dicey-spot mudfest.

Several very conscientious hikers on this forum have successfully led their dogs up Class 3 and 4 routes. ....
If you hadn't said conscientious I would think you were talking about me... And it wasn't ever clear who was leading.
One thing that is critical is to have your dogs paws toughened up. Three or four mile runs on hot asphalt or concrete a couple of times a week works for my dogs. Make sure the dog is in shape. Also, I don't take my dogs on class 3 or 4 fourteeners on account of the crowds at the summit. I left them at a saddle below Snowmass due to a crowd even though they really wanted to follow me. I wouldn't take a dog up Pyramid or the Bells, but I've taken dogs up Castle with no problems.
I carry a leash but would never leash a dog on class 3 or 4.
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Re: Dog on Class 3s or Difficult Class 2s??

Post by juj333 »

I have no intentions on taking my dog on any of the class 4s, ever. And it's only the "easier" class 3s that I'm considering, specifically Wetterhorn. Otherwise, I'm really just more curious about the difficult class 2s, such as Blanca and the Ellingwood traverse. I've always intended on leaving him home for the Class 3s, but the more we've done--the better he's been. Raising my curiosity...do many dogs do Class 3s?

For those that mentioned kicking rocks--thank you, I have not considered that point since I have yet to do any peaks with any real amount of talus or loose rock. I've picked up my dog whenever I've felt the need to and have even carried him half way down Sherman when he tired of the snow in early Spring. I would never want anything but his safety and enjoyment while hiking--thus why I opened this forum up for advice. Please don't question my determination to keep him safe, I go to as many lengths to assure his safety as I do my own-if not more.

Polar--thank you especially for the tips. I greatly appreciate it.
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Re: Dog on Class 3s or Difficult Class 2s??

Post by DaveSwink »

juj333 wrote:And it's only the "easier" class 3s that I'm considering, specifically Wetterhorn.
I thought the last 100 - 150 feet of Wetterhorn seemed like a very steep staircase with each step twice as high as a normal staircase, and every 6th step was three times as high as normal. I could easily picture a very fit dog bounding up Wetterhorn but a controlled doggie-descent is hard to imagine. If your dog froze up on the descent, a harness, rope and lowering skills would be needed.

Dogs have climbed Wetterhorn, but I would think they are very exceptional dogs.

You know your dog best. I would suggest climbing Wetterhorn with friends first to assess the route. If seems within the zone you have seen your dog handle comfortably, bring him on the repeat.
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Re: Dog on Class 3s or Difficult Class 2s??

Post by Jeff Valliere »

Oman wrote: My problem is the what ifs:
1. What if my dog kicks a rock onto a climber below?
2. What if my dog ends up off-route in a bad place?
3. What if my dog falls and gets hurt, and I have to carry him out?
And especially: 4. How could I live with myself if my dog was hurt or killed because I led him to a risky place? Who was I trying to make happy -- my dog or me?
Very well put, all things that I consider when debating whether or not to bring my dog along. I have taken her on plenty of class 3, steep snow climbs, etc... but most always on uncrowded routes (13ers or other peaks), or non peak times on 14ers and also where the possibility of rock fall is not really an issue.

Having spent many trail miles and many summits with my dog, other dogs, or just witnessing other dogs with unrelated parties, it should also be mentioned that, like people, the abilities of dogs in the mountains vary greatly. Some are bumbling, careless and oblivious to the dangers around them, some are over confident and easily get into trouble, some are very timid. I have seen other dogs climb quite carefully, be quite light footed and think through every move. Experience factors in heavily too, along with conditioning, training and the oh so important bond with their owner.
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Re: Dog on Class 3s or Difficult Class 2s??

Post by mtree »

SurfNTurf wrote:
Oman wrote:Several very conscientious hikers on this forum have successfully led their dogs up Class 3 and 4 routes. I have not done that with our dog. My problem is the what ifs:
1. What if my dog kicks a rock onto a climber below?
2. What if my dog ends up off-route in a bad place?
3. What if my dog falls and gets hurt, and I have to carry him out?
And especially: 4. How could I live with myself if my dog was hurt or killed because I led him to a risky place? Who was I trying to make happy -- my dog or me?
Pretty much this. I hike with my dog a lot (his 13er/14er peak list is north of 30), but I leave him at home for anything above Class 2. To me, the reward isn't worth the risk. We humans put ourselves in danger willingly and are able to reap the perceived mental/emotional/spiritual rewards. Dogs aren't given that choice, and really, all they want to do is run around and sniff stuff. They don't gain anything from a Class 3 they couldn't get on a Class 1. I've seen first-hand what can happen to a dog who takes a fall (she survived, barely). I can't imagine putting my pup through that -- or what my girlfriend would do to me.

That said, there are exceptions. I've hiked with some truly remarkable dogs (Sophie!). I'm not one to judge or admonish their owners. Take your dog where you will, but be ready to accept the consequences and make the safety of human climbers paramount.
A agree with this entirely! I had rocks dropped on me by dogs climbing the only steep pitch of Uncompahgre. I was pissed! Not an apology or word from the bonehead owners. I've seen dogs chase mountain goats, fight with other dogs, and some shaking so wilding from exhaustion and fear it would break your heart. You're responsible for your dog, its safety, and its actions. And if you take your dog, understand that humans come first. My dog would be a great hiker/climber. I just don't see the benefit in taking her. She's just as happy sniffing poop and peeing on rocks at 8,000ft as she would at 14,000. I know she has no clue or desire to summit anything that doesn't have food or at least a Frisbee at the top. Not worth my hassle. But, to each his/her own.
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Re: Dog on Class 3s or Difficult Class 2s??

Post by GeezerClimber »

juj333 wrote:I have no intentions on taking my dog on any of the class 4s, ever. And it's only the "easier" class 3s that I'm considering, specifically Wetterhorn. Otherwise, I'm really just more curious about the difficult class 2s, such as Blanca and the Ellingwood traverse. I've always intended on leaving him home for the Class 3s, but the more we've done--the better he's been. Raising my curiosity...do many dogs do Class 3s?

For those that mentioned kicking rocks--thank you, I have not considered that point since I have yet to do any peaks with any real amount of talus or loose rock. I've picked up my dog whenever I've felt the need to and have even carried him half way down Sherman when he tired of the snow in early Spring. I would never want anything but his safety and enjoyment while hiking--thus why I opened this forum up for advice. Please don't question my determination to keep him safe, I go to as many lengths to assure his safety as I do my own-if not more.

Polar--thank you especially for the tips. I greatly appreciate it.
IMO, Wetterhorn would be a very bad choice. It is not easy class 3 and the last 150 ft. is very steep. Plus a fall from there would end up being more like 600 ft. Some steps are very tall. Lastly, there is some loose rock on it and a dog would be a hazard to other people on the mountain. You would not be able to leash it since you would need both your hands for yourself. I would be scared to death for my dog on that pitch. One slip and your dog is dead.

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Re: Dog on Class 3s or Difficult Class 2s??

Post by bigredmachine »

My dog is a little to old to be doing 14ers, but I have a friend who has a young St. Bernard who has completed about a dozen 14ers not exceeding class 2. My friend is planning on joining me with his dog on Castle/Conundrum this Saturday and I am a little nervous and was hoping to get some other opinions. The dog does great on loose dirt, steep dirt/scree, but because of his size (about 90lbs) large boulders which require scrambling can be troublesome. She had no problems with mountains such as Missouri, Princeton, La Plata or Evans via the gulley, she did struggle (but was able to make it) with Humboldt just below the false summit with the large boulders. We are also considering Yale in a few weeks, so any opinions on that mountain would be appreciated as well.

Thanks,
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Re: Dog on Class 3s or Difficult Class 2s??

Post by samjaffe »

Castle and Condundrum are listed as difficult class 2's, but that's wrong. There are several spots where you have to do rockwall climbing with hundreds of feet of exposure below you. There's no way a dog can scale a vertical wall. As someone who has taken his dogs on more than a dozen fourteeners and who has summitted Castle and Conundrum (dogless), I can tell you without a doubt that this is a very bad idea.
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Re: Dog on Class 3s or Difficult Class 2s??

Post by BillMiddlebrook »

samjaffe wrote:Castle and Condundrum are listed as difficult class 2's, but that's wrong. There are several spots where you have to do rockwall climbing with hundreds of feet of exposure below you. There's no way a dog can scale a vertical wall. As someone who has taken his dogs on more than a dozen fourteeners and who has summitted Castle and Conundrum (dogless), I can tell you without a doubt that this is a very bad idea.
Samjaffe,
If you were doing "rockwall climbing with hundreds of feet of exposure" on the standard Castle or Conundrum routes, you were off-route. They do not require Class 3 (or higher) climbing.

While I'd suggest not bringing dogs on anything higher than Class 2 because of the issues mentioned previously by Oman, many dogs have done both of those 14ers, and the more difficult ones.


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Re: Dog on Class 3s or Difficult Class 2s??

Post by climbinfool »

I got a dog up and down both Castle and Conundrum on 2 different occasions (and don't remember having any concern or running into any difficulty). He also got up Eolus, N Eolus and all but the very top of Windom. He's been up Lindsey, other 14ers and many 13ers as well. He's a pretty athletic dog. I did definitely turn around in the last 150 vertical feet or so on Wetterhorn when things got too sketchy.

I agree with others who have mentioned that dogs also have varying degrees of skill, athletic ability and confidence.
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Re: Dog on Class 3s or Difficult Class 2s??

Post by Holliewd »

The last 3 saturdays spent on a 14er changed my mind about bringing dogs up. Granted, my tweenie Dachshund climbed Grays Peak at 9 mths old but was carried a lot of the way. I followed two blood trails down the past couple weekends from dog paws being trashed. Another two very awesome, very fit dogs had to be left behind while their owners summitted Mt.Yale. Met one guy that told me he lost his dog last year on top of a 14r due to his paws became so bad that he freaked out and ran off. And he had ANOTHER dog with him with bleeding paws. I witnessed a few dogs being allowed to harass the Pica and Marmots as well. I am a dog lover, owned by two adult dogs myself. Just use your good judgment!
Our furry friends should train just as we do before taking on a mountain.
Last edited by Holliewd on Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dog on Class 3s or Difficult Class 2s??

Post by climbinfool »

Holliewd wrote:The last 3 saturdays spent on a 14er changed my mind about bringing dogs up. Granted, my tweenie Dachshund climbed Grays Peak at 9 mths old but was carried a lot of the way.. I would not recommend bringing any dog on a 14r. I followed two blood trails down the past couple weekends from dog paws being trashed. Another two very awesome, very fit dogs had to be left behind while their owners summitted Mt.Yale. Met one guy that told me he lost his dog last year on top of a 14r due to his paws became so bad that he freaked out and ran off. And he had ANOTHER dog with him with bleeding paws. I witnessed a few dogs being allowed to harass the Pica and Marmots as well. I am a dog lover, owned by two adult dogs myself. Just use your good judgment!
Our furry friends should train just as we do before taking on a mountain.
I don't agree that no dog should ever go on any 14er, if that's what you're saying, but I also certainly don't think that any dog should be abandoned while someone finishes a climb. That sounds like really bad form and very selfish, in my opinion (unless someone else is staying with them).

I certainly agree that dogs who go along on trips should be in good shape -- of course, I also think that a person shouldn't get a dog unless they're committed to getting them plenty of exercise and time to run around.
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