Kedrowski: 2016 Ski Project Controversy

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AnnaG22
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Re: Looking at Lindsey Lately

Post by AnnaG22 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:40 am

Gotcha. Thanks for taking the time to explain that! Best of luck to him...some of those peaks don't have room to ski out from under a slide. :shock:
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Re: Looking at Lindsey Lately

Post by justiner » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:27 pm

I've derailed the thread, and I'm sorta sorry (not sorry!), but his writing reminds me of the book Deep Survival by Laurence Gonzales, where he talks about small problems that add up to accidents. For example in the Lindsey story: going alone, the closed road and no parking, the recent snowfall, the longer approach, the slow conditions, the bad snow, no real talk of basic snow conditions measuring (digging a pit, etc), changing your approach, the warming of the weather - the friggin' avalanche they started. Careful Icarus! is all I gotta say. Ok one other thing: is it really a speed run, when the length is 360+ days, and you take a big break in between for summer?! :) It's a bold goal, and I have to respect that - considering I myself don't know my french fries from my pizza, but I also respect that Dawson took years to make it happen, and Davenport had the experience, as well as the backing to do things like aerial recon of some of the lines. He also wasn't out there, solo. I also remember that Aaron Ralston guy - his Winter 14er reports were terrifying.

I may just have a respectable amount of fear for the mountains in me, regardless of my own admittedly reckless exploits...
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Re: Looking at Lindsey Lately

Post by youngk2844 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:32 pm

Deep Survival was an interesting read. I did find myself wishing Gonzales was a better writer. The book made me wonder how I would react in a serious survival situation.
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Re: Looking at Lindsey Lately

Post by polar » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:59 am

justiner wrote:the bad snow, no real talk of basic snow conditions measuring (digging a pit, etc), changing your approach, the warming of the weather - the friggin' avalanche they started. Careful Icarus!
I agree. I understand people have different risk tolerances, but unless his risk tolerance doesn't include coming back alive, he's pushing it too far. After he triggered the avalanche, he wrote "I was so fortunate to have made the right decision when I was climbing up a couple of hours before!" Uh, no, the right decision would've been to turn around. ("Dipping dot hail"? How about "graupel"?)

People talk about building experiences, and this guy obviously had done some big stuff. But no one ever distinguish "good experience" from "bad experience". Someone could've been doing things wrong or making bad decisions for years, but just got lucky all the time. That to me should be "bad experience". But if the outcoming is good due to pure luck or whatnot, people chalk it up to "good experience" and build on top of that.

In this case, triggering an avalanche is clearly a result of making bad decisions, but because the outcome was good, he's going to think he made the right decision. So when he encounters something similar in the future, he will look back and think "it was ok last time, so it should be ok this time". Hopefully his luck won't run out before he run out of peaks to ski.
Last edited by polar on Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Looking at Lindsey Lately

Post by BillMiddlebrook » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:32 am

justiner wrote:Man, that's some risks they're taking. All the, "I didn't go all this way just to turn around before the top" talk is terrifying.
Yup. Put the GoPro down and do some basic avalanche risk assessment. Skiing big peaks, far away from any help, is dangerous enough without taking unnecessary risks just to try and meet a goal.

And if he had that much trouble on LB, he should stop now.
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Re: Looking at Lindsey Lately

Post by bergsteigen » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:09 am

BillMiddlebrook wrote:
justiner wrote:Man, that's some risks they're taking. All the, "I didn't go all this way just to turn around before the top" talk is terrifying.
Yup. Put the GoPro down and do some basic avalanche risk assessment. Skiing big peaks, far away from any help, is dangerous enough without taking unnecessary risks just to try and meet a goal.

And if he had that much trouble on LB, he should stop now.
The first time I attempted Lindsey, Eric and I had to start from the lower closure too (because of a downed tree). We got all the way up to the saddle, but the weather was turning and it was getting late. Did it suck that we had to turn around after all that work? Yes it did. Backing off a line is sometimes the hardest thing you have to do, but it has to be done on occasion. I had to do it on Saturday on a peak 9 hours away (and 14mi, 5.5K RT), thankfully I had an easier way down.

Just read the LB report. All I can say is I hope he learned a lesson about ice. While LB is a serious line, it's not going to get easier from there, if this was his hardest peak yet. (Looks like it)

I love how there isn't a single shot of Blanca's face in either the Blanca or Ellingwood report - something tells me it was quite dry and not very "skiable"...


Edit: Going for a list like the 14er ski, is challenging even to the best of skiers. One needs a lot of experiences to be able to do it safely. Trying to do in in less than 1 year, is insane, unless you are a professional skier with a huge support team. A friend of mine tried this 2 years ago, got half way through, had logistical issues and quit. You need time to reflect on each trip out, to be able to grow enough for the next bigger line. I'm 6 years in now, and still learning and growing as a skier. If this year is anything like last year (constant spring storms bringing new snow, lack luster freezes once it does stop snowing), he doesn't stand a chance, the risks will be too high.
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Re: Looking at Lindsey Lately

Post by SnowAlien » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:49 am

He has sponsors for this project (another book in the making probably). Didn't he ski Capitol last spring in less than ideal conditions? I assume he probably can get down.
But to Otina's point, several 14ers weren't "in" by conventional measures this winter when he got them. Also, if it's a twofer or more, he typically just skis to the saddle with the next peak (B/O, R/S, S/T, Decalibron). Some peaks were done not by conventional ski routes (Holy Cross, Pikes). So I am not sure it is directly comparable to what 14 people in front of him have accomplished and the standards other people pursuing the same goal adhere to. But I could be wrong, as we all know the term "davenporting".
Last edited by SnowAlien on Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Looking at Lindsey Lately

Post by FireOnTheMountain » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:02 am

I think everyone is overlooking one crucial underlying factor....the dude is a doctor. He must know everything about everything everything.
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Re: Looking at Lindsey Lately

Post by lordhelmut » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:11 am

Another crucial underlying factor is the selfie stick footage and the online reacharounds. Nothing else matters.
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Re: Looking at Lindsey Lately

Post by bergsteigen » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:21 am

FireOnTheMountain wrote:I think everyone is overlooking one crucial underlying factor....the dude is a doctor. He must know everything about everything everything.
Doctor of Geography. Had to search for it. Having gone to undergrad on the east coast, we called all our professors Doctor. I had a hard time calling my advisor by his first name, even when he asked me too. I think I could only manage it once or twice back then. Moving west, I wouldn't think of calling my advisor by anything other than her first name. Why I can't stand east coast academia, it's too pretentious.

I haven't studied all his descents, but if he does what you say Nat, Dawson won't recognize his claim if and when he does finish. Nor should any other self respecting ski mountaineer. Skiing on a peak is very different than skiing a peak.
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Re: Looking at Lindsey Lately

Post by SolarAlex » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:29 am

personally if i don't feel comfortable climbing something, I'm probably not riding it either. It seems crazy that he correctly identified the hazard (triggering something above him) and then went ahead and skied it anyway because he could "manage the risk" . To me it sounds more like 'ah f it I'm here already , may as well ski it' . The worst experience I ever had on a split board was with someone who subscribed to that viewpoint...The guy ignored every red flag presented to us, and stupidly, I went along with it and found myself in a situation that I seriously thought I may not walk away from.

Obviously this guy is far more skilled and experienced than me, but I really hope that he makes safer decisions in the future...that LB incident was scary just to read, and sounds like a pretty miraculous outcome for him.
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Re: Looking at Lindsey Lately

Post by justiner » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:41 am

OH, this is the sleeping on the summits dude?

This is the guy that did the trip report about finding the hurt person on Snowmass?

In 2014, I just missed him when I reached the summit of Yale.

He left his business card at the top. It said something like, "Let me help you summit your personal Everest" or something like that, which I thought was in bad taste, giving the tragedies on the mountain in that year. Who leaves business cards at the top of a 14er advertising the guiding/mentoring business? Barf .

I find this person less than appealing. Whatever, I don't care anymore, I hope he stays safe. From his writing, he sounded like some random 22 year old. But, I don't trust anything this guy says or does. Doctor my butt.
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