Need for a hand gun or any Gun?

[gdthomas]

This topic was discussed ad nauseum about six months ago. It was overwhelmingly agreed by all that there are those on the trail who carry guns and those who don't.

[Kiefer]

This is something I've thought about for a VERY LONG TIME because I keep wanting to purchase one but for some reason, never have. Those that do carry, I believe do so for two reasons:

1.) It's their God given right to do so and by God, they will. You can't really argue with that and I won't. In other words, it has nothing to do with the environment.
2.) They carry because of the fear of coming in contact with a wild animal which, is completely justifiable.

If I ever deceide to buy a piece, it more than likely will be because of #2.
I hike and climb solo like 98% of the time. I've been in a few circumstances where having a handgun would have been a huge relief but luckily I had other means to relay on by sheer serendipity. But having said that, I don't think a mountain lion is going to recognize a bowie knife or axe and deceide to dig up that marmot he saw a few miles back because it's easier food.
I definately see the clarity and sense in carrying a piece in the backcountry but most of the time it will probably never be used.

However, it just takes one incident. A friend of mine just got back last week from guiding (fishing) in Alaska for the summer. For those who don't believe carrying a gun is a wise idea, trying fishing from the bank of a river with an 500lb Grizzley 50ft downstream from you doing the same. Or being chased by a jealous grizzley cub because you're having better luck pulling in fish than he is.
Treking in Alaska and upper Canada, having a handgun is pretty much standard gear and dangerous NOT to have one.

I know we don't have Grizzley in Colorado (or do we? ) but I've been within petting distance of Black Bear in the wild (Skeleton Gulch, RMNP), within ~40 ft. of a mountain lion family (Kelly Flats, Poudre Canyon) and roughly 15ft from a bull Elk (Chapin Pass, RMNP). I personally think carring a piece would be a good idea. But each to their own.
At least I know where to go for advice when I deceide to get one! :D

[solopeak]

Well, to each their own, but if you read the bear books, you'd see that in virtually all encounters a gun is useless. What exactly do you think a bullet from a pistol is going to do to a bear? Granted, bears in colorado rarely get over 350#, but that just makes it a smaller target. Bears and lions move astonishingly quick, and you may just be too startled to use a weapon of any kind. Encounters of the violent kind are over and done in a matter of seconds (usually/hopefully). Don't shoot your foot off.
Interesting story-I read about an encounter where a man tried to raise a rifle at a charging bear (grizzly in some other state). The bear was a short distance away, but by the time the man could raise the rifle, the bear was upon him. The impact BENT THE RIFLE .
Now, weirdos in the forest is a whole other thread...but look at the stats.
I write this with the nicest intentions, so I hope no one takes this as a slam. Happy climbing, all! :D

[Geof3]

Well, to each their own, but if you read the bear books, you'd see that in virtually all encounters a gun is useless. What exactly do you think a bullet from a pistol is going to do to a bear? Granted, bears in colorado rarely get over 350#, but that just makes it a smaller target. Bears and lions move astonishingly quick, and you may just be too startled to use a weapon of any kind. Encounters of the violent kind are over and done in a matter of seconds (usually/hopefully). Don't shoot your foot off.
Interesting story-I read about an encounter where a man tried to raise a rifle at a charging bear (grizzly in some other state). The bear was a short distance away, but by the time the man could raise the rifle, the bear was upon him. The impact BENT THE RIFLE .
Now, weirdos in the forest is a whole other thread...but look at the stats.
I write this with the nicest intentions, so I hope no one takes this as a slam. Happy climbing, all! :D

To be honest, it's more the 2 legged critters I'm worried about... But in reality the chance of something happening is slim it hardly seems worth it... BUT... you never know... to me it's about being prepared, just in case. Not paranoid, but smart...

To the females of the group, an FYI... if you are in the BC and it's "hormone" time... be extra careful. Bears and lions can pick up on the scent... scary reality... that's one of the reasons I always carry if my wife and I are overnight anywhere but Nat Parks...

[Cornfed97]

if a magic wizard came to you in the forest and handed you a gun saying "If you carry this, it may save your life, but you may never have to use it" (and it only weighs a couple of pounds). Would you carry it? Um, YEAH, DUH, why not? (to the gun control advicate: blah, blah, blah, you could shoot your eye out,....different post, different day, different forum)

I would like to think that most of us are mature, and responsible, enough to recognize whether or not we are capable of safely handling/carring a firearm.

[johnner]

I often carry a 9mm, especially when hiking alone. I live in Arizona and I have come across bears, mountain lions (one in my back yard), javelinas (wild boars), and many rattlesnakes. I have never had to shoot anything while hiking, but I certainly want to be prepared in case I have to defend myself. If I am hiking a crowded 14er I'll leave the gun behind, but in the back country where the crowds don't keep the critters away, I'm packing a heater!

[TalusMonkey]

Alan Ellis,

Nice call on the PM40. I carry a Kahr PM9 most of the time. At 1lb 2oz loaded, its weight is negligible. I expect your PM40 weighs almost the same. And the small size doesn't beat you up. I know another individual on this site who carries a compact Taurus .40.

[mtgirl]

I haven't seen many females posting on this thread, so I'm taking a chance and throwing in my opinion.....

First off, I'm a LEO, fully trained and qualified in firearms, and legal to carry, concealed or unconcealed....Everyone is entitled to their opinion on firearms and I don't judge people for carrying or not carrying.

However, I do carry my Taurus .40 Millenium on most trail runs and hikes below timberline (on 14ers where I'm initially ascending a good distance thru the forest, I also carry). After a lot of experimentation with holsters, I've found a chest harness to be most comfortable and most accessible. Even while running, I barely notice it's there, it's secure and not bouncing around.

I carry for two reasons:
1. Protection from animals (I've had bear encounters, one scary mountain lion encounter, and have been bitten by a pit bull - all while not carrying). I won't put myself in the position again of not being as prepared as possible.
2. Protection from the human "freaks" out there. Being a female in the wilderness alone, I will protect myself if I have to.....

During this past summer, I was leaving work every Weds, driving to a nearby trail, and running (2000 foot ascent in 3 1/2 miles, then back down). I was like clockwork, same trail, same day, same time....The dirt road to the trailhead dead-ends at the trailhead and I rarely see anyone driving or on the trail. I get close to the trailhead, and I notice a vehicle following behind me. There are two guys in the car, and they by no means look like hikers or people out for some exercise. I got a bad feeling right away - I probably should have turned around, but my stubborness wanted to get in some good training. Anyway, I get to the trailhead parking lot and park. They slowly drive past me and park between my truck and the trailhead. I have to pass by them to start my run. I strapped on my chest harness and .40 and start walking. They try luring me over to their car, trying to get me closer. Asking questions like "where does this trail come out?" "can you come closer, I can't hear you". They were both dirtbags who I'm sure had no interest in the trail. So, I faced them from about 15 feet away, pistol very visable in my chest harness. I didn't hear a word from them as they drove away. The point of the story is, I fear what may have happened if I looked like a defenseless female......

Be safe out there. You have the right to your own opinion about firearms. But, I won't apologize if mine offends you.

[gsliva]

In 30 years plus of clumbing have I seen anyone packing heat except Alaska. You definitely need a weapon and not a pistol in Alaska. You've all heard the joke punch line: What do you see in Bear Crap? Pepper spray and bear bells. In the lower 48 except Grizzley Country (Montana et. cet.) you might need bullets but I would say the only time you need to have a weapon is to protect yourself from dirt bags. It's a long way for the cops to come to save the day. I don't think the SAR guys are packing either.

I personally don't carry or never had even though I do have a Glock 40 SW just in case they outlaw them. If anyone is interested in a carry weapon/survival there is a great web page that discusses this and its 3 w's equipped.com "equipped to survie". There is a thread to follow about the Kel Tec SU 16 that is four pounds and folds up so you can carry it in your pack. It'a a 223 caliber and makes a great survival rifle that would be great in the situations you guys have described.

One last thing. I thought this was a tree hugger web page but I'm very surprised to see so many gun lovers chime in here. Wow! Are you guys Texans, Californians, Natives??????? Very surprised.

[Devin]

One last thing. I thought this was a tree hugger web page but I'm very surprised to see so many gun lovers chime in here.

Same here. It is nice to see this topic come up and not have those who DO carry guns get the thrashing that they normally do.

I personally don't own a gun....yet. It seems that there is always something else to spend money on. I do always carry a fixed blade when I hike, though.

[johnner]

mtgirl
I read your account of the mountain lion encounter, and now of the incident with the two guys. I don't blame you for carrying. I too had a close encounter with a lion, but not as bad as your's was. I was mountain biking on a remote road East of Tucson, AZ. I saw something move out of the corner of my eye, and there, on the opposite side of the road was a lion. I stopped and got off my bike, keeping the bike between us. He was about 50' away. I started to raise my bike up in the air to make myself "look bigger". As I began doing this, he jumped a 4' fence and was gone.
I was not carrying a gun at that time, but if I was, I certainly would have been drawing a bead on that lion. Being defenseless in a situation like that is not fun, and I will never forget it. Another time I came across a lion and her kitten, though from a safer distance.
Better to be safe than to be food for some cat!

[Neil]

To most of you who have had intelligent things to say about guns, thank you for contributing to the conversation...the world is a better place because of you (sounds sarcastic, but is serous). As someone who neither sees the merits in carrying firearms nor believes in them to begin with, I've learned quite a bit from most folks here and have softened my stance. I appreciate this being a civil discussion on the topic.

For those remaining few who have diahreah of the mouth on this topic, try to at least learn some civility from your armed bretheren. If you don't want to be dismissed or bashed by those who hold equally valid, but opposite, opinions from your own, you might try to give them the same respect you desire instead of rambling about no one being able to stop you or blah blah gun control, etc. Most of the posts have me walking away a more open person because they are rational and open...then I read yours and go right back to where I was.

Thanks again for the mostly great pro-gun discussion and opening my eyes to something I've been closed off to...