Petition to rename Kit Carson

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Do you agree that Kit Carson should be renamed Mount Crestone?

Yes - rename it!
17
6%
No - do not rename it!
264
94%
 
Total votes: 281
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JsinDeAZ
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Re: Petition to rename Kit Carson

Post by JsinDeAZ » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:20 am

14erFred wrote:I find it highly presumptuous of anyone to claim to own a mountain, even in the case of privately "owned" peaks such Culebra, Sherman, and Bross. We are citizens of the Unites States, but the government does not "own" us. I live on the shore of Lake Michigan, but I do not "own" it. The citizens of the town of Crestone live at the base of Kit Carson, but they do not "own" the mountain.

The townspeople of Crestone need to find a more important issue to which to devote their time and energy. There are far more important matters in the world that need to be addressed than trying to rename the mountain to their liking. Why not devote time and effort to something that's much bigger and more important than the mountain? The citizens of Crestone should look beyond the mountain to the problems of poverty and injustice that lie outside their neighborhood and then work to change those things to what they want them to be. Why focus on changing the name of a local geological feature, when the world itself needs to be changed?

What myopic and limited vision the town has to see no further than their own backyard, while so many people suffer in this world. The people of Crestone have lost their sense of perspective and are making a mountain out of a molehill. Give up this trivial pursuit and tackle a problem that really matters in the bigger scheme of things.

Then why care what the hell these people do or try to petition to name a peak? Focus on your own backyard and leave others to their own? Perhaps hypocrisy (and this whole thread) need to just bugger off... go to a soup kitchen and feed your local starving and who gives a flying f*ck what some distant mt. is named?? This whole thread is utterly nonsense... Same goes for all the morons pioneering this 'cause'. It's a mountain. We hike/climb them. If the name is important to you, perhaps your life is empty.
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Keno Menechino
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Re: Petition to rename Kit Carson

Post by Keno Menechino » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:56 am

Gosh, what a bunch of mean spirited people who post here! I’m not going to waste my time copying and quoting your silly statements, I’ll just comment on them; you know what you wrote….

So several of you don’t want to be looked at as our guests while on the mountain? Fine. But tell me, when you get lost or hurt up there, then, does that mean you don’t want us locals coming up the trail to save you, either? I can tell you one thing, it is the locals from Crestone who are the first responders up on that mountain - several times a year - when climbers are killed, hurt, or lost – every time! But again, we are good people and we risk our own lives sometimes going up there to save you - and would still save even you rude folks who post here, even if you didn’t ask us to.

To judge an entire town because of one bad encounter in a store is so ridiculous that I don’t need to even comment any more on that.

As far as Fred and his proposal goes, we told him we would be happy to support his wanting to name the top peak “Kit Carson”, if he would just join in with us on the name change. But he didn’t want to do that. So we just left our second proposal on naming the top peak as it was.

As far as all the people from 1860 being dead, gee, no kidding. But guess what, we still have people alive today who live here, some in their 80s, some a lot younger, and we all have memories of the mountain, including a few locals who were around in the 1940s when the news of the name being incorrect first was known in town. But oh yeah, only the memories of you climbers should count, who cares what the locals think.

Finally to Susan. I already have told and directed several members of the BGN to this thread so they can read all of this. You and your friends’ mean spirited comments and putdowns here directed against the good people of Crestone should work against your side. You folks here only care about your egos and how many 14ers you can climb, and that isn’t a good reason to keep calling the mountain (which we locals maintain for your use) by this incorrect name.

I’m done with this joint now, I will not be back to read any more of your dribble. It is a waste of time talking to close-minded people who don’t care about others. But let me leave you folks with one thing…. The locals of Crestone aren’t dirt just because some of you say so, and we will be back with a new proposal in time to change this name if we lose in this first fight. We will not give up!

You all have a happy holiday season.
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Re: Petition to rename Kit Carson

Post by Fred_Bauder » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:08 am

Keno Menechino wrote:As far as Fred and his proposal goes, we told him we would be happy to support his wanting to name the top peak “Kit Carson”, if he would just join in with us on the name change. But he didn’t want to do that. So we just left our second proposal on naming the top peak as it was.
Simply made up, like nearly every other assertion Keno has made. Keno and his friends are not in the habit of discussing issues before their knee jerks into gear.
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JoeyJ
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Re: Petition to rename Kit Carson

Post by JoeyJ » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:17 am

Keno Menechino wrote: I’m done with this joint now,
OK. But you're behavior on here suggests you're doing more than just smoking weed.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. -Abe Lincoln
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dsunwall
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Re: Petition to rename Kit Carson

Post by dsunwall » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:26 am

JoeyJ wrote:
Keno Menechino wrote: I’m done with this joint now,
OK. But you're behavior on here suggests you're doing more than just smoking weed.
Who sounds the most malicious? Keno has been low key, just trying to explain the towns point of view, not insulting like a few here.

I see both sides.I understand the people of Crestone who want the mountain in question named Crestone Mountain. Almost everyone else will want it to remain Kit Carson. The discussion involves an official name change which brings in alot more factors than simply how the town of Crestone feels. They might have to settle for calling it Crestone themselfs but officially leave it at Kit Carson. Just another big government reality we all have to live with.
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JoeyJ
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Re: Petition to rename Kit Carson

Post by JoeyJ » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:33 am

No malice here. Just an observation.
I'm not from CO, and not part of this spat. Nothing against Keno personally, or anyone on here, but Keno comes across as a bit of a wacko.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. -Abe Lincoln
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Jim Davies
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Re: Petition to rename Kit Carson

Post by Jim Davies » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:24 am

Beautiful downtown Crestone, from the CPR story:
Crestone.jpg
Crestone.jpg (29.57 KiB) Viewed 1767 times
All this heat and thunder is about renaming point #1 (which is actually Challenger Point, not that any of the locals seem to know that...). Point #2 doesn't seem to be named (I think it's pt 10664), and looms over the town more than Challenger does. Why don't they just name #2 to Crestone Mountain, and leave Kit Carson alone? Perhaps the 14er fever is more widespread than the peaceful SLV beatniks would care to admit...
Climbing at altitude is like hitting your head against a brick wall — it's great when you stop. -- Chris Darwin
I'm pretty tired. I think I'll go home now. -- Forrest Gump
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edhaman
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Re: Petition to rename Kit Carson

Post by edhaman » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:13 am

I'm a little confused about Keno's comments that previous name changes were done by "outsiders," and that climbers on the peaks in question are "guests" of the town of Crestone. Does the town have legal title to the peaks? My (admittedly undetailed) maps indicate the peaks are in the Rio Grande National Forest.
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susanjoypaul
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Re: Petition to rename Kit Carson

Post by susanjoypaul » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:16 am

droidly wrote: how many times can we vote? :D
Just once, but you can change your vote at any time. That's how I set it up, anyway. But there's *still* time to send an email to the BGN, if you like. Again, the email address is: gnis_manager@usgs.gov

And there's a sample email here if you need it:
http://www.14ers.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 79#p333779
JsinDeAZ wrote:Then why care what the hell these people do or try to petition to name a peak? Focus on your own backyard and leave others to their own? Perhaps hypocrisy (and this whole thread) need to just bugger off... go to a soup kitchen and feed your local starving and who gives a flying f*ck what some distant mt. is named?? This whole thread is utterly nonsense... Same goes for all the morons pioneering this 'cause'. It's a mountain. We hike/climb them. If the name is important to you, perhaps your life is empty.
Thank you Mother Teresa. I always love it when a member of the Morality Police stops by to sprinkle us with their high and mighty opinions of what we should be doing with our time, and our lives - in this case, simply exercising our Freedom of Speech.

JsinDeAZ, I have a *very* full life, and have been involved in - and continue to support - charitable causes for nearly 30 years, but that does not preclude me from spending *some* of my time on other matters that interest me, such as this. This is a mountaineering forum, so we discuss mountaineering causes. For matters that may interest you, based on your comments, please see http://www.soupkitchens.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Now run along. Somewhere out there on the big World Wide Web is another thread full of sinners in dire need of your moral judgment.


Two of my favorite posts on this thread bear repeating:
somethingrandom wrote:For me its not about a mountain's name. It is about the minority acting morally superior because of some BS conjured up by the PC police to make everyone else conform to them. Occasionally the majority should be allowed an opinion without it being trampled by a small group of d-bags taking some ridiculous "high ground".
bonehead wrote:Thanks for some reality. This issue is not at all about the words or names.
And by the way, words are the greatest tool humans possess. Words have meanings.
Only an ACLU lawyer or an ex President would argue:
It depends on what the definition of Is is.
Fight the good fights and don't let the bastards win.
Pat
Love it.

And if anyone thinks that Keno hasn't been mean-spirited, go back and read his comments. His words are full of vitriol, lies, and manipulation, insulting me, and the entire mountaineering community, and evoking the good names of the people of Crestone, the sheriff's office, and the local search and rescue personnel, in order to further his cause. None of those entities has delegated Keno as their official representative, nor have they spoken up on his behalf, and so I sincerely doubt if any of them actually share his views. This isn't "the people of Crestone against the world," as he depicts it, but rather "Keno and his buddies against anyone who disagrees with them." I don't think he's "wacko" at all, but rather, simply an idiot who thought he could quietly slip a petition and a proposal past the mountaineering community, to rename a peak known as "Kit Carson" to "Tranquility Point," with no historical or political basis at all for his actions.
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Re: Petition to rename Kit Carson

Post by Mountain Ninja » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:46 pm

Voted.
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Re: Petition to rename Kit Carson

Post by kbmiller » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:03 pm

So, I heard that Keno and THE GREAT CAMILLO climbed Kit Carson in 45 minutes starting from downtown Crestone, rescued 45 people along the way, and had time to cook a gourmet dinner on Crestone Peak later in the afternoon.
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Re: Petition to rename Kit Carson

Post by rickinco123 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:43 pm

timstich wrote:I say we rename the peak Bill Carson!

Image

He's buried in the grave next to Arch Stanton, you know.


Or name it Mount Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez.
Hell yeah, Tuco peak!
You know? There are 2 kinds of people my friend, those who come in through the window and those who come in through the door.
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