Lost: Skis on Torrey's Peak/Ski Recovery Mission

[Mrwaffles989]

Yo so I'll see you at the TH at 3am on Saturday rickinco123 ?

[Mrwaffles989]

No one was defending him – just showing a little compassion, and relief for the fact that he survived. I think we all agree that he screwed up.

I stand by my statement.

And suggest that you try to relax. Take a deep breath.
Save your anger for the bedroom.

We don't need to agree that he screwed up, an avalanche was triggered, he screwed up.

Compassion went out the window for this guy when the CAIC report came out. I try to learn from the incidences as much as I can and he has been defensive and evasive. He encouraged others to go back into a danger zone, one that CAIC investigators have now declared is unsafe, he got SAR, the Sheriff and who knows who else into the danger zone, he abandoned his friend on the ridge, he triggered a slide which could have endangered others in the area, and, if you read his trip reports, he has a history of endangering himself and others.

The CAIC report contains these nuggets:
"CAIC staff examined the avalanche the following day, but the crown was unsafe to approach for a detailed profile."
and
"The witnesses heard a faint "HELP!" They changed plans and headed toward the summit of Torreys. The skier stood at the crown for 20 to 30 minutes before climbing back to the summit and the saddle between Torreys and Grays. Once the witnesses were within shouting distance, they determined that the skier was uninjured and alone. The skier proceeded to hike down, cutting across snowfields that the witnesses had "assessed [as] way too dangerous to touch."

These comments are addressing THIS thread and the OPs request for help going back up to retrieve his stuff and is slap at him and his poor judgment. Obviously there are people outside of 14ers.com who are not happy with this guy.

When you endanger others safety, and have a history of it, show no contriteness or willingness to learn, you get scorn. Do you feel safer with this guy out there?

Lock me up and keep me away from society, I'm just an absolutely terrible person. Did I physically carry people up the mountain and place them right under my ski line? Did I call SAR? How do you figure that I have learned nothing and showed little contrition or humility? Do you know who I am and what my personality is like? NO. So don't go making these outlandish comments like, "Do you feel safer with this guy out there?". I do alot more good than you ever will. If you don't want to be in danger, THEN STAY HOME. If you don't want to get hit by an avalanche, well then do not stand under me while I'm skiing. Dur! Imagine what the world would be like if it was filled with people like you? We'd still be living in caves because we'd be too afraid to take a chance?

*edit
And I am in no way saying that I made a good choice, because obviously I didn't. But I am saying that I didn't "directly" put anyone else in danger on sunday or in any of my other trips. I was traveling solo in every trip report, how did I endanger anyone but my self? In both instances, SAR was nowhere near any danger zones, and they were called because I did not return on time, not because I was out endangering others. CAIC officials were, but saying that I endangered them is just like saying I endangered a police officer investigating a burgalry at my house because I messed up and left my door unlocked.

[rickinco123]

I am not commenting on you as a person. I do not know you, just some of your actions, via posts, witnesses, photos, etc... they are dangerous. When you screw up and ask for help, you should be willing to come forward and own up to your mistakes.

When you are traveling with others, when they decide to turn back due to danger, that is a decision for both of you.

You don't need to call SAR, other will do it, you should know that. If you ever have to be rescued, you will be grateful for it.

Like the witnesses in the CAIC report, if I see someone doing what you do, I will recognize it for what it is. I will get the hell away.

I just hope I do not read about you as an accident victim. Stay safe.... I'll stay away.

[Mrwaffles989]

My partner turned around because he was tired and feeling ill, not because of any danger. And I didn't abandon him on some ridge. He turned around a 12000 where it was still entirely flat. STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS. I'm obviously aware that I made a mistake by attempting to ski it. Do you really think that I learned nothing and am going to go out and do the exact same thing again? You must be a god rick. please teach me your ways.

I am open to comments that acutally make sense and will help me avoid instances like this in the future. Other people have scorned me, which is fine, but gave me advice at the same time. You gave nothing.

[rickinco123]

*edit
And I am in no way saying that I made a good choice, because obviously I didn't. But I am saying that I didn't "directly" put anyone else in danger on sunday or in any of my other trips. I was traveling solo in every trip report, how did I endanger anyone but my self? In both instances, SAR was nowhere near any danger zones, and they were called because I did not return on time, not because I was out endangering others. CAIC officials were, but saying that I endangered them is just like saying I endangered a police officer investigating a burgalry at my house because I messed up and left my door unlocked.

So because SAR didn't make it all the way out everything is cool huh?

When you leave someone alone in the wilderness, both of you are at increased risk.

You did not endanger the CAIC officials because they were not willing to approach the area, due to avalanche danger, where you asked others to go with you. You know..... the title of this thread?

[Mrwaffles989]

This is just a shouting match between you and me. I'm done.
I f*****d up. I know.
Live and learn.
Ski on!

[bigmac]

I'd personally say he learned alot. Also he isn't responsible for the SAR call... that was me, we were the men in the field and we both had to make decisions. Were they all the right ones... obviously not, but we still made the best we could. He did not endanger anyone but himself and that is his call. If you were standing below that coulior you would be dead, but I don't believe there are too many people out there whom would want to climb it and he looked before he skiied it (so no, he wasn't commiting murder). Also for route selection, we stayed out of avalanche danger the best we could. Including traveling down the middle of the basin where possible, and traveling single file through ANY avalanche POSSIBLE areas. I skiied the "river bed" the whole way down, because I believed that to be the safest route (most would agree with me). He didn't put me in danger, I decided that I didn't feel good enough to travel on any of that terrain (Beyond MY level of acceptable risk and I was moving to slow). He knew I was safe traveling down, and if he wants to ski that kind of stuff it is his life and he has to decide what is an acceptable level or risk for himself (no one else can). I have skied with him before and believe he knew EXACTLY what he was getting himself into and that is his decision (I would have been pissed if he would have left me at the ridge, but from where we were at I was comfortable traveling solo) I personally didn't think "the juice was worth the squezze", but that is the decision for the individual unless it effects the team and then you MUST go with the decision of the least risk tolerable person. This decision did not effect my safty, and it was his to make.

This was his call... let him learn from it. Personally I now feel more confident in his judgement because some people need a near miss to learn to respect winter mountaineering. I believe he will be better at choosing routes from now on and that this is a valuable learning experience not something to say he should never go into the mountains again.

Experience is nothing more than a result of bad judgement and near misses. Let us learn from our mistakes (and the mistakes of others) and be mountaineers until we are 90!

Edit: i was moving slow because i was sick and being slow gives you significant added risk!

[CO Native]

OK, a couple of posts now have alluded to the idea that it is irresponsible to call SAR in conditions that are potentially dangerous. Give me a break. If you think you or anyone else might need help don't hesitate to call. We are all volunteers, we do have wives and kids, but leave the go/no-go decision to us. No one puts our lives in danger but ourselves. We are trained to find safe ways of carrying out our missions. (For instance if necessary Alpine Rescue could have triggered the hangfire and entered the scene once the danger was mitigated.) Give us the chance to find a safe way to help. We are well aware of the risks and will only take on risk that we are willing to accept.

[coloradonative]

Rickinco you sound like frightened individual! My belly still hurts from laughing at your statement "do you feel safer with this guy out there"!! I once saw an avalanche that no one triggered. Am I scaring you?

[cheeseburglar]

Rickinco you sound like frightened individual! My belly still hurts from laughing at your statement "do you feel safer with this guy out there"!! I once saw an avalanche that no one triggered. Am I scaring you?

He should be scared! I knew two people who died in an avalanche that was triggered by natural causes, probably a warming snowpack in the afternoon. They were considered experts. Sometimes you can't get across those runout zones fast enough or just don't take them seriously. They had been backcountry skiing much longer than Mr. Waffles has been alive, and about as long as the Rick has been alive. That's the nature of risk, sometimes the odds catch up to you.

[ThinAir]

Im sayin this thread is SICK....I told you this waffles dude is RAD.

The funny thing is if your Alex Honnold skiing Dead Dog right now is WAY MORE SUICIDAL then free soloing Moonlight. You cant control avalanches but you can walk 12d 800' of the deck with no rope if your name is Honnbold the Great.

SERIOUSLY NO ONE WANTS TO PIPE IN ABOUT HOW MANY TIMES THIS LINE GETS SKIED IN WINTER??? Thats it I am goin for it no doubt, no becon, sans avy training and add shovel for a booter at the top. I will get your skis for ya buddie.

Should he not have climbed the chute first? (thats what my "expert buddies" try to tell me) but then he REALLY could have gotten smoked.

Im getting some popcorn...

I don't know what kind of skier Alex is. For all i know he can't buy a turn. And your point about avalanches is understood, but comparing a D13 ski descent with the climbing resume of Alex is beyond a stretch. Its ridiculous. The guy has done things that put him in the most elite class of climber. Only Croft has also done the Astroman/Rostrum double in a day. And while I like Mr. Waffles' moxy, he aint in a league with Croft. Now, if he had gone and repeated Dav's line on Capitol, solo, that'd be a better fit. That said, there's no such thing as self arrest if you pop off a big wall free-solo. Hersey ring a bell?

[Gahugafuga]

DCP_0640.jpg

This huge landslide from an unnamed 7,000-foot-high peak in the Alaska Range, less than 10 miles west of the Trans-Alaska Oil Pipeline, was triggered by the 2002 Denali Fault earthquake. The fault rupture offset the ice of the mile-wide Black Rapids Glacier, in the foreground, which the landslide subsequently covered.

You know, I was skeptical that I would learn anything from this thread but I stand corrected. Unfortunately it had nothing to do with avalanche avoidance and everything to do with plate tectonics. On second thought, any word on whether the Wasatch fault is going to lurch this winter, jfox?