Global warming shrinks mountains

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Mark A Steiner
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by Mark A Steiner » Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:12 pm

Jim Davies made a fine point about climate modeling (selecting data that fits a model or preconception rather than allowing the model to assume its own character with all available data). Pick and choose your data and you can construct a Power Point presentation making you look brilliant to your peers at conferences, even if you conclusions are false. Forget the expense to good science. You're da Man. Unfortunately this practice in science is rampant elsewhere including in geology.

Brief case in point: K-Ar (or Ar-Ar) radiometric dating says a volcanic rock is 26 MY old. U-Pb says this same rock is 40 MY old. How old is the rock?

Didn't someone earlier in this thread say the planet is 4 BY old (I was taught it is 4.6BY old - big deal)? Is this what we use to date the age of earth?
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by covfrrider » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:01 pm

Mark A Steiner wrote: Didn't someone earlier in this thread say the planet is 4 BY old (I was taught it is 4.6BY old - big deal)? Is this what we use to date the age of earth?
I said that to illustrate a point... Assume the earth is 4 B y/o... Use any number you like, I was simply trying to point out that the "data" is for such a short period of time in the grand scheme of things, that making a definitive statement is not really possible.

As far a picking a data set and making a model, Jim made my point exactly... both side of this argument are probably guilty of just that.
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by Jim Davies » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:18 pm

tundraline wrote:I live in a big air-conditioned house, have three Hummers, a hovercraft, and fly all over the world on a regular basis. After deducting carbon credits for having the proper mindset, my calculated carbon footprint is very small. I know that as an individual I have no responsibility for what is happening to my planet.
Well, at least you're no worse than Al Gore. Or maybe you are Al Gore? After all, you can't spell "tundraline" without "al". ;)
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by Mark A Steiner » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:23 pm

Thanks covfrrider for the fair reply. All I was saying was ...

Beware of radiometric dating methods when trying to apply an age to the earth. There are at least four methods in use presently that have a high degree of error in dating individual rock suites. The error is such that the age dates for rock specimens often don't even overlap. This suggests that the earth may not the 4B to 4.6B years-old figure so many of my colleagues in the science cling tenaciously to. Maybe much less?

As applied to climate change one thing in need of more consideration is that the earth is a more complex system than computer models often suggest. Lack of data collection points is partly to blame. The Sun's contribution of heat is enormous and variable (sunspots versus no sunspots). Geothermal sources often go unnoticed. Along mid-ocean ridges, "black smokers" have temperatures as high as 768 degrees such as is found in one Atlantic vent. All this heat is going somewhere; certainly it eventually rises to the surface to be incorporated into oceanic currents.

Do blooming columbines on the summits of Uncompahgre and Wetterhorn Peaks (reports in other threads) mean the planet is warming or cooling?

The more we learn about this planet with an open mind, the more fascinating it becomes ...
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by tundraline » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 am

Jim Davies wrote:
tundraline wrote:I live in a big air-conditioned house, have three Hummers, a hovercraft, and fly all over the world on a regular basis. After deducting carbon credits for having the proper mindset, my calculated carbon footprint is very small. I know that as an individual I have no responsibility for what is happening to my planet.
Well, at least you're no worse than Al Gore. Or maybe you are Al Gore? After all, you can't spell "tundraline" without "al". ;)
What's all this about Al Gore?

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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by rob runkle » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:38 am

Mark A Steiner wrote:Beware of radiometric dating methods when trying to apply an age to the earth. There are at least four methods in use presently that have a high degree of error in dating individual rock suites. The error is such that the age dates for rock specimens often don't even overlap. This suggests that the earth may not the 4B to 4.6B years-old figure so many of my colleagues in the science cling tenaciously to. Maybe much less?


Geo-geek!! :D
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by CorduroyCalves » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:05 pm

I'm interested in knowing why Obama is so lame from those who think he is.
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by pw » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:28 pm

VWLover wrote:I'm interested in knowing why Obama is so lame from those who think he is.
You could try reading this very long transcript, or find the podcast at the same site and listen to that, a 2 hour interview with a guy who wrote an Obama book.

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/talkradi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ebcad0d8b1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwahl/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by Jim Davies » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:40 pm

rob runkle wrote:Geo-geek!! :D
Nah, that stuff is basic Young-Earth Creationism.
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by tundraline » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:56 pm

VWLover wrote:I'm interested in knowing why Obama is so lame from those who think he is.
I still have not figured out what Obama has been doing with himself for his past nearly 48 years on the planet. I understand he was a "community activist" in Chicago for six years, taught Constitutional Law somewhere for a few semesters, and served in the Illinois State Legislature for a couple of terms (a part-time position). These are hardly impressive qualifications for President of the United States. By any reasonable or objective measure, Obama would appear to be woefully ill-equipped to handle the awesome responsibilities of the job. Our country can ill afford eight years of nitwitdom followed by at least four years of a lightweight at the helm whose primary assets are a nice smile and incessant talk about "change" (whatever that means). These are my problems with Obama, and the reason why I will probably wind up reluctantly voting for a geriatric war monger.
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by Jim Davies » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:59 pm

Of course, your "geriatric war monger" basically went straight from the military to Congress. Other than quantity of time served, how is he any more qualified?

I, for one, would welcome a President who has actually read the Constitution. :D
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by tundraline » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:23 pm

Jim Davies wrote:Of course, your "geriatric war monger" basically went straight from the military to Congress. Other than quantity of time served, how is he any more qualified?

I, for one, would welcome a President who has actually read the Constitution. :D
McCain was a squadron leader in the Navy, and has actual training and experience in leadership and management. His long service in the U.S. Congress is much more valuable experience than Obama's part-time job in the Illinois legislature. Obama has been on the political scene for a very short period of time, and is largely an unknown. In truth, however, I feel queasy supporting McCain, who has his own notable problems. I see McCain as the lesser of two evils, and Obama as fundamentally too risky a choice for president. Lincoln was also an unknown, however, when he ran for president, and he turned out to be one of our best. But I don't Obama is any Lincoln either.
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