Global warming shrinks mountains

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tundraline
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by tundraline » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:53 am

rob runkle wrote:
tundraline wrote:[Rush Limbaugh Limbaugh enrolled at Southeast Missouri State University and dropped out after two semesters and one summer.]

[John Coleman, who famously stated that global warming is "the greatest scam in history" and accused the "global media" of colluding with "environmental extremists" to alarm the public, has been a "TV weatherman" since he was a freshman in college in 1953. He has a bachelors degree in journalism and is not even a Certified Broadcast Meteorologist.]
Not sure your point.

But...

Thank god you have Brad Pitt, Leonaro DiCaprio, Keanu Reeves, Alanis Morrissette, oh and... Rosie O’Donnell. I'm so happy for you...

8)
One point is that a lot of hot air is blown around in the media on the topic of global warming/climate change by people who are fundamentally unqualified to venture strong public opinions on the topic, but who nevertheless present themselves as "experts." Benny Peiser and John Coleman certainly fall into this category and despite their lack of credentials have gotten a lot of air time (and implied credibility) from the likes of Fox News. Nothing further really needs to be said about that blowhard radio personality and entertainer who has eaten too many Big Macs in his life. A similar argument could be made about Al Gore, who is a layman and politician, and not a scientist (although at least he occasionally acknowledges this fact). Hollywood celebrities and musicians with a penchant for voicing their political or scientific views have always irritated me enormously, and should be ignored, whatever their political stripe. But at the end of the day, the issue of climate change is not a political issue, it's a scientific issue with real consequences for real human beings all over the planet. The sooner we realize this, the sooner we can do something about it.
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by CorduroyCalves » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:59 am

tundraline wrote:
rob runkle wrote:
tundraline wrote:[Rush Limbaugh Limbaugh enrolled at Southeast Missouri State University and dropped out after two semesters and one summer.]

[John Coleman, who famously stated that global warming is "the greatest scam in history" and accused the "global media" of colluding with "environmental extremists" to alarm the public, has been a "TV weatherman" since he was a freshman in college in 1953. He has a bachelors degree in journalism and is not even a Certified Broadcast Meteorologist.]
Not sure your point.

But...

Thank god you have Brad Pitt, Leonaro DiCaprio, Keanu Reeves, Alanis Morrissette, oh and... Rosie O’Donnell. I'm so happy for you...

8)
One point is that a lot of hot air is blown around in the media on the topic of global warming/climate change by people who are fundamentally unqualified to venture strong public opinions on the topic, but who nevertheless present themselves as "experts." Benny Peiser and John Coleman certainly fall into this category and despite their lack of credentials have gotten a lot of air time (and implied credibility) from the likes of Fox News. Nothing further really needs to be said about that blowhard radio personality and entertainer who has eaten too many Big Macs in his life. A similar argument could be made about Al Gore, who is a layman and politician, and not a scientist (although at least he occasionally acknowledges this fact). Hollywood celebrities and musicians with a penchant for voicing their political or scientific views have always irritated me enormously, and should be ignored, whatever their political stripe. But at the end of the day, the issue of climate change is not a political issue, it's a scientific issue with real consequences for real human beings all over the planet. The sooner we realize this, the sooner we can do something about it.
I was wondering what road this was going down, and I was pleasantly surprised by what you said at the end. You're absolutely right--it is a scientific issue, and it's too bad that it has become polarized by those who want change and those who want to keep their heads buried in the sand.
Life is too short to pay full retail for outdoor gear!

"God has cared for these trees, saved them from draught, disease, avalanches, and a thousand straining, leveling tempasts and floods; but he cannot save them from fools; only Uncle Sam can do that."--John Muir
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by La Mula » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:55 am

I'm looking forward to the day when women's beach volleyball will be taking place on the approach hikes.
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rob runkle
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by rob runkle » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:31 am

VWLover wrote:I was wondering what road this was going down, and I was pleasantly surprised by what you said at the end. You're absolutely right--it is a scientific issue, and it's too bad that it has become polarized by those who want change and those who want to keep their heads buried in the sand.
Just because not everybody is drinking the Global Warming Koolaid doesn't mean that they are "sticking their heads in the sand." You are making a generalization just because people don't agree with your point of view. [-X

If I were a generalizing type person I might say that all New Englanders are Rich, snobby, uptight WASPs. :?
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by CorduroyCalves » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:00 pm

rob runkle wrote:
VWLover wrote:I was wondering what road this was going down, and I was pleasantly surprised by what you said at the end. You're absolutely right--it is a scientific issue, and it's too bad that it has become polarized by those who want change and those who want to keep their heads buried in the sand.
Just because not everybody is drinking the Global Warming Koolaid doesn't mean that they are "sticking their heads in the sand." You are making a generalization just because people don't agree with your point of view. [-X

If I were a generalizing type person I might say that all New Englanders are Rich, snobby, uptight WASPs. :?
You're right. Actually, I'm not concerned so much for the global warming aspect as I am for simply conserving what we have. The earth is a finite space. Consequently, we have a finite amount of natural resources. No magic faucet to turn on when we need more.
Life is too short to pay full retail for outdoor gear!

"God has cared for these trees, saved them from draught, disease, avalanches, and a thousand straining, leveling tempasts and floods; but he cannot save them from fools; only Uncle Sam can do that."--John Muir
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rob runkle
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by rob runkle » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:09 pm

VWLover wrote:You're right. Actually, I'm not concerned so much for the global warming aspect as I am for simply conserving what we have. The earth is a finite space. Consequently, we have a finite amount of natural resources. No magic faucet to turn on when we need more.
This we can agree on. I was brought up to clean my plate, not litter, abhore waste. I don't really think that the "faucet" will run out, at least in our life times, but I still don't see the value in waste and sloppiness. To me it is a matter or "pride".
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George James
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by George James » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:35 pm

Does global warming exist? I dunno. Heck, seems like nobody can really say for sure, one way or the other. So the bottom line (for me anyway) is this: Regardless of whether Global Warming exists or not, we should all be trying harder to reduce our output of pollution in any form, whether it's Greenhouse gases, or Funhouse gases, or White House gases, or whatever! Who cares what house it's coming from! :D

Besides the fact that we may help to reduce a "warming effect" on the planet, there are so many other good reasons for all of us, indiviudals and large companies alike, to be making efforts to change our consumption habits and move to clean(er) energy resources more and more all the time. I'm sure that all of you can think of plenty of good reasons just off the top of your head!

So while it's an interesting discussion I think that it's somewhat of a moot point. I mean, sure it's worth debating and exploring academically, but I don't think we need to know whether global warming really exists or not to realize that polluting less (probably a lot less) is in our best interests, in many more ways than one...

...but wait a minute!
tundraline wrote:According to climate change models, Colorado should receive more precipitation (and more snow) as the climate warms.
Oh Yeah? :o Well why didn't someone tell me that sooner! In that case, HOORAY FOR GLOBAL WARMING!!! \:D/ GLOBAL WARMING IS MY HERO!!! THREE CHEERS FOR GLOBAL WARMING!!! :lol:
I'm going out tonight and finding a bunch of tires to burn! Then I'm gonna go get myself a T-Shirt! Move over Hansel!Image


...Oh, and to actually address the original post...
bayouboy wrote:If the height of a mountain is measured from "seal level" and global warming is causing the seas to rise then blah blah blah...
I guess that's an interesting thing to think about for a moment or two, but who the heck cares man? The total elevation of a mountain is just a number. :wink:

Cheers! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
- A mountain is not a checkbox to be ticked
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by sundog54 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:26 pm

bayouboy wrote:I'm honored by all of you on taking part on this thread. I started this thread with a tongue-in-check comment. :lol:

So I must put my two cents in. I don't think we have enough information to know whether or not global warming exits.
Thanks for starting it bayouboy. I notice you haven't responded to my offer to those who posted before me, that is, a dollar to anyone who can honestly say they've read the reports of the IPCC. Should I infer that
a) your silence on the matter means you have NOT read the reports (which are the largest work on the subject), but that
b) you still think that "we" don't have enough information to know whether or not global warming exists?

In short, if you haven't READ the biggest works on the subject, how is it possible for you to be informed about whether or not "we" have enough information? Maybe you meant to say "...I don't have enough information"?

Or maybe you just didn't see my post...possible...but then, reading all the posts would be another way to get more information about the subject, hmmm?

If you read the reports before I posted my offer, I'll give you a dollar.

Here's another way to look at the issue: take an evidence-based approach. What sort of event or evidence would convince you? Like, say, the ice disappearing completely from the Arctic Ocean during the three summer months? The glaciers melting completely away to nothing in Glacier National Park? What would alter your impartiality?

For me, I'd be convinced that global warming had ceased or reversed (note: I did not say "is not real") if either of the two above-mentioned processes reversed their current trends for five years running.
In a big country dreams stay with you /Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside / Stay alive -"In a big country", Big Country
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by covfrrider » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:49 pm

In the link I posted earlier (which I doubt anyone followed and read) there were some comments from Paolo B. DePetrillo, MD. He wrote up an analysis of weather data which was kind of interesting. Link here: http://www.well.com/user/pdeep/pages/wa ... 1019.shtml

This graph is from his analysis. Even to an untrained eye like mine, a pattern emerges...

Image

Falls in line with what I've always believed about the weather... it's cyclical, and our samples are far too small to draw any incontrovertible conclusions.
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by pw » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:26 pm

sundog54 wrote: For me, I'd be convinced that global warming had ceased or reversed (note: I did not say "is not real") if either of the two above-mentioned processes reversed their current trends for five years running.
If that happens 10 years or so from now, I will resurrect this thread and remind you of this statement (unless this thread is still active in 10 years, which it could be). I did skim over the IPCC report, there are of course "fringe" scientists who take issue with parts of it.

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tundraline
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by tundraline » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:31 am

covfrrider wrote:In the link I posted earlier (which I doubt anyone followed and read) there were some comments from Paolo B. DePetrillo, MD. He wrote up an analysis of weather data which was kind of interesting. Link here: http://www.well.com/user/pdeep/pages/wa ... 1019.shtml

This graph is from his analysis. Even to an untrained eye like mine, a pattern emerges...

Image

Falls in line with what I've always believed about the weather... it's cyclical, and our samples are far too small to draw any incontrovertible conclusions.
Why would anyone who is seriously interested in the topic of global warming even bother looking at a few musings prepared by a medical doctor on the topic? This appears to be consistent with the well-established trend of global warming naysayers having to resort to citing "experts" such as Benny Peiser, Rush Limbaugh, John Coleman and the like. Even DePetrillo writes: "I learned how to develop and test nonlinear models as part of my work in pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. I have absolutely no formal background in climate science . . . .
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by rob runkle » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:03 pm

tundraline wrote:Why would anyone who is seriously interested in the topic of global warming even bother looking at a few musings prepared by a medical doctor on the topic? This appears to be consistent with the well-established trend of global warming naysayers having to resort to citing "experts" such as Benny Peiser, Rush Limbaugh, John Coleman and the like. Even DePetrillo writes: "I learned how to develop and test nonlinear models as part of my work in pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. I have absolutely no formal background in climate science . . . .
Why would anyone who is seriously interested in the topic of global warming even bother looking at a few musings prepared by a ex-vice president on the topic? This appears to be consistent with the well-established trend of global warming proponents having to resort to citing "experts" such as Leonardo Decaprio, Brad Bitt, Rosie O'Donnell and the like. <Sorry I don't have any disclaimers from Gore on the topic. He must be a REAL expert!!!>

Covrider... You had to know that you would get this kind of response (like from tundraline). Some people just don't understand that data anaylsis and modeling does not necessarily require one be an expert on the subject. You should have seen this one coming from a mile away Cov... :D
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