Global warming shrinks mountains

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JayMiller
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by JayMiller » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:20 pm

Mark A Steiner says:
The greatest sources of CO2 are from unseen undersea volcanism and of course, volcanoes like Tambora, Vesuvius, St. Helens and Pinatubo and Kilauea. Anyone want to propose legislation to regulate the CO2 emissions from these vents?
I think there is a flaw in your argument. These sources of CO2 have been around millions of years. They are part of the natural balance that has been achieved over millions of years. It is the additional CO2 and other greenhouse gases man is adding to the atmosphere that is the problem not the naturally occurring gases the planet has already balanced.

Mark also says:
One massive or super-eruption in the North America and all this talk about global warming would vanish in a Yellowstone minute.
Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying we shouldn't do anything about global warming because Yellowstone is due to erupt sometime in the next 200,000 years or so.
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by mtn_hikin » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:41 pm

I thought Al Gore was the largest producer of CO2
tundraline
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by tundraline » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:52 pm

Mark A Steiner wrote:For now, I don't want to see anyone have to cut back on their enjoyment of the 14ers or other natural features in Colorado or elsewhere because some wealthy globalists tell me its for the good of the planet. This is still the United States, although it may not be for long. Elections, anyone?
Too bad everything seems to be, at its root, political in your world, where messy things like the facts just keep getting in the way. Climate change a problem for you or your children? Blame it on the "wealthy globalists" instead of looking at the facts. Or talk about volcanoes that might erupt sometime in next million years. Just because there are over six billion ravenous people on the planet who are laying waste to the world's forests and oceans, and who are spewing out tens of thousands of tons of trash, carbon dioxide and pollutants every day, and just because the rate at which species are going extinct on our watch exceeds that of previous mass extinctions in the geological record, doesn't mean there might be a problem. People today could care less about what John Kennedy said almost 50 years ago: "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Today, in America, it would appear our freedom to consume trumps all other considerations. We have become an intensely selfish and foolish people in a very short period of time.
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by Mark A Steiner » Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:43 pm

Tundraline:
Actually, I agree with the point you made about pollution and greed. We have been poor stewards of what has been provided. Other threads have addressed the matter of trash on the trails and 14ers. If you go somewhere, leave it better than you found it, if possible. Don't make it worse.

You suggested freedom to consume trumps other considerations. May I suggest that with freedom goes responsibility. Irresponsible people are not vigijlant people. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Whether people discuss warming or cooling isn't an issue as long as people who clearly have an agenda don't lie and force me to accept it.
Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatever state I am, therewith to be content - Paul the Apostle.
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by JayMiller » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:21 pm

Mark A Steiner writes:
Whether people discuss warming or cooling isn't an issue as long as people who clearly have an agenda don't lie and force me to accept it.
What's this all about. Why do you have to call people liars who simply have an honest disagreement with you. Unless of course you can explain the clear agenda of the vast majority of climatologists. Note I said climatologists, not doctors, not lawers, not chemists, not geologists, not weathermen, but real honest climatologist who actually beleive in the science.

And don't come back talking about Al Gore. This is not about Al Gore, it's about the vast majority of the the climatologists for whom Al Gore is one of many spokespeople. It is the scientists you are calling liars, not Al Gore.
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by covfrrider » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:30 pm

Leave Al out of this... he's not a liar, just a really BIG (in more ways than one) exaggerator! I mean, he did invent the Internet!
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Mark A Steiner
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by Mark A Steiner » Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:05 pm

Sorry, JayMiller. I wasn't suggesting that anyone one this thread was lying, nor do I discourage honest fair disagreements. All I am saying is Caveat Emptor when politicians speak ex cathedra and try to impose their will on the rest of us by either distortion of fact or other dishonesty to influence public policy. I stand firm for the right of all of you to speaks your minds, agree or not.
Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatever state I am, therewith to be content - Paul the Apostle.
Like it or not, I am a slow driver. Putt ... putt ... putt ...
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by lpf20 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:51 pm

If you are interested in learning about the current climate change research and debate (no global warming is not fact) you could try visiting http://climatedebatedaily.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Personally, there doesn't even seem to be much evidence supporting that land ice melting will cause much of a sea rise, considering that vaporization, evaporation, and even sublimation are all related to temperature as well.
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by 2_Salukis » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:12 am

Why is the debate always whether or not it can be debated? The discussion is never allowed to be whether or not it's occurring, and if it is, is it a natural cycle, or the result of humankind? That's my first indication that it's best not to just follow the pack and press the "I believe" button when the topic comes up.

Besides those who deny the Holocaust and believe in a flat Earth, there are also scientists and researchers in their field who were adamant that ulcers were caused by stress and spicy food, that killing off the wolf population was a good thing, and that introducing mongoose into the Hawaii Islands to control rats would be beneficial.

What allowed those "truths" to be debunked was not a stifling of debate, but an encouragement of it.
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by 1moremile » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:45 am

2_Salukis wrote:Why is the debate always whether or not it can be debated? The discussion is never allowed to be whether or not it's occurring, and if it is, is it a natural cycle, or the result of humankind? That's my first indication that it's best not to just follow the pack and press the "I believe" button when the topic comes up.

Besides those who deny the Holocaust and believe in a flat Earth, there are also scientists and researchers in their field who were adamant that ulcers were caused by stress and spicy food, that killing off the wolf population was a good thing, and that introducing mongoose into the Hawaii Islands to control rats would be beneficial.

What allowed those "truths" to be debunked was not a stifling of debate, but an encouragement of it.
+1
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by sundog54 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:33 am

1moremile wrote:
2_Salukis wrote:Why is the debate always whether or not it can be debated? The discussion is never allowed to be whether or not it's occurring, and if it is, is it a natural cycle, or the result of humankind?
+1
The wonderful thing about the internet is that it permits the four pages of debate that preceded your statement above. The internet, and mass media generally, also enables people too busy to actually READ the reports of the International Panel on Climate Change to "debate" stuff on the basis of what they've heard from their pastors, radio talk show hosts, and political opportunists of all stripes. We live in a world where we can easily find a face we don't like, say, Al Gore's, or George Bush's, and use that person as a whipping boy, venting our rage against the "other half" of America, without really examining the facts. Threads like this enable us all to FEEL a wonderful sense of self-justification that's unrelated to what might actually be happening.
We, the masses, can generate tons of DOUBT about conclusions reached by any set of scientists, a group whom we would trust with our lives in a hundred other circumstances, such as getting on a plane, detecting bioweapons or keeping our food safe. That's the beauty of democracy; free speech, worth at least twice as much.

In short, this thread is barely a "debate" at all; I am willing to bet a dollar against each prior participant in this thread that they themselves have not read the reports of the IPCC, regardless of which side of the debate they're on. Take a look at the graphs, and remember Occam's Razor; namely, that the SIMPLEST explanation is most likely to be the correct explanation.

Whenever a consensus starts to emerge, as is happening regarding climate change, the internet and threads like this one will enable the LOSING side to start squawking that the "debate never happened", that they're being "stifled", etc. The losing side in THIS debate is now talking about the personal habits of Al Gore, and trying to focus on how much sea level might NOT rise, but if they had read the reports of the IPCC (yes, I have) they might be thinking about crop losses, invasive species, drought, insurance rates, etc... And, those who focus on Al Gore, sea level rise, their talk show host, etc. will be able to CONTINUE this "debate" for a hundred years, if they like. After all, it's a free society....and EVERYTHING has political bias, so NOTHING is true.

C'mon, any takers? Anyone actually read those two reports? I've got a dollar waiting for you if you can honestly say so, and have already expressed your opinion.

Sundog
In a big country dreams stay with you /Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside / Stay alive -"In a big country", Big Country
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rob runkle
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Re: Global warming shrinks mountains

Post by rob runkle » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:50 am

Sundog...

Are you serious regarding the IPCC? The "bias" is clear in the Acronym itself... Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

Do you think that they will EVER publish anything that says, "There is no issue, we (the IPCC) have no reason to exist." =D>

Here is some better reading... The IPCC under the Microscope - http://mclean.ch/climate/IPCC.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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