Fees Proposed - Affects Elk 14er Camping /4 pass - Public Comment

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Fees Proposed - Affects Elk 14er Camping /4 pass - Public Comment

Post by Chicago Transplant »

The Forest Service is seeking public comment, open until Sept 15, on a proposal to add fees to the Maroon Bells-Snowmass Wilderness for overnight camping at Conundrum Hot Springs, Capitol Lake, Geneva Lake (Snowmass/Hagerman West side) and for camping along the Four Pass Loop (Including Snowmass Lake and Crater Lake). The fee would be charged May 1 - Oct 31. Fee would be $12/night (I think its actually $18 when you take into account the Recreation.gov processing fee).

They are encouraging comments to go beyond a "yes" or "no" level of support and really want to know why people support or oppose. I haven't camped in any of these areas in years, only day hikes, so I am not sure just how out of control things have gotten. I know many of you have probably camped in these areas in recent years so please comment. Thanks!

https://www.fs.usda.gov/whiteriver
https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DO ... 931679.pdf
“We truly, truly want to hear from people,” Warner said. The agency is reaching out to the public in the Roaring Fork Valley and to organizations in the Front Range to inform them about the proposal and the comment opportunity.
https://www.vaildaily.com/news/forest-s ... ilderness/
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Re: Fees Proposed - Affects Elk 14er Camping /4 pass - Public Comment

Post by cottonmountaineering »

This is essentially a tax to keep poor people out imo
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Re: Fees Proposed - Affects Elk 14er Camping /4 pass - Public Comment

Post by WishIWasInTheMts »

cottonmountaineering wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:15 pm This is essentially a tax to keep poor people out imo
Respectfully disagree. I don't think "poor people" are going to have the time (yes, opportunity cost), to fill up their vehicle ($$) with $3/gallon gas ($$), with all their camping equipment ($$), and food ($$)...etc ($$). In other words, the mere fact that one has the luxury to spend a week or weekend in the mountains already costs money, $30 won't change that equation. And it's only for over night, if someone really is "poor" they can drive up there and spend the day for "free" (you know apart from all the other costs). Many other wilderness areas have use fees just to access the parking lot (Maroon Bells and Brainard Lake). Don't see this as any different. You've got to pay to camp and enter RMNP and that place is a zoo.

Fees are a sensitive subject. Is this the low hanging fruit? Yes. Will it fix the problem? Probably not. If, with fees, we could somehow ensure that the areas we are trying to protect are actually protected from being driven into the ground, that's great. I'm all for it. If we just push people to other spots and allow them to trash a new location, that's not good either. If we are charging fees just to charge fees, and not actually using the funds to maintain (or improve!) an area from being loved to death, that's not cool.
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Re: Fees Proposed - Affects Elk 14er Camping /4 pass - Public Comment

Post by Scott P »

There just is no solution that's going to make everyone happy. Maroon Lake might see half a million visitors this year. The backcountry lakes around the 14ers I the Elks are getting trashed.
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Re: Fees Proposed - Affects Elk 14er Camping /4 pass - Public Comment

Post by EZsummits »

cottonmountaineering wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:15 pm This is essentially a tax to keep poor people out imo
I thought Aspen already made sure poor folks aren't welcome in that area :P
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Re: Fees Proposed - Affects Elk 14er Camping /4 pass - Public Comment

Post by jrs1965 »

I completely support this if a USFS reservation trumps the stupid reservation system the Aspen Chamber of Commerce has set up.
Last edited by jrs1965 on Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fees Proposed - Affects Elk 14er Camping /4 pass - Public Comment

Post by Dave B »

Chicago Transplant wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:11 pm
They are encouraging comments to go beyond a "yes" or "no" level of support and really want to know why people support or oppose. I haven't camped in any of these areas in years, only day hikes, so I am not sure just how out of control things have gotten. I know many of you have probably camped in these areas in recent years so please comment. Thanks!
Hopefully the Forest Service listens to public input better than the City of Fort Collins does (RIP Maxwell), but I doubt it will. If fees have already been proposed and regulating usage is needed, I'm not sure how much public comment will change anything. It's not like people are going to speak up in favor of the fees and reservations.
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Re: Fees Proposed - Affects Elk 14er Camping /4 pass - Public Comment

Post by cougar »

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Re: Fees Proposed - Affects Elk 14er Camping /4 pass - Public Comment

Post by Curve »

It's apparently really hard to keep fees off of public land.
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Re: Fees Proposed - Affects Elk 14er Camping /4 pass - Public Comment

Post by cottonmountaineering »

WishIWasInTheMts wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:47 pm
cottonmountaineering wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:15 pm This is essentially a tax to keep poor people out imo
Respectfully disagree. I don't think "poor people" are going to have the time (yes, opportunity cost), to fill up their vehicle ($$) with $3/gallon gas ($$), with all their camping equipment ($$), and food ($$)...etc ($$). In other words, the mere fact that one has the luxury to spend a week or weekend in the mountains already costs money, $30 won't change that equation. And it's only for over night, if someone really is "poor" they can drive up there and spend the day for "free" (you know apart from all the other costs). Many other wilderness areas have use fees just to access the parking lot (Maroon Bells and Brainard Lake). Don't see this as any different. You've got to pay to camp and enter RMNP and that place is a zoo.

Fees are a sensitive subject. Is this the low hanging fruit? Yes. Will it fix the problem? Probably not. If, with fees, we could somehow ensure that the areas we are trying to protect are actually protected from being driven into the ground, that's great. I'm all for it. If we just push people to other spots and allow them to trash a new location, that's not good either. If we are charging fees just to charge fees, and not actually using the funds to maintain (or improve!) an area from being loved to death, that's not cool.
you must not be poor

$20/night is a ton more than gas money after carpooling. they are essentially banning service workers in aspen from camping in this area
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Re: Fees Proposed - Affects Elk 14er Camping /4 pass - Public Comment

Post by XterraRob »

I'm selfish and would rather see the land destroyed rather than anyone have to pay money to maintain it!!

/s
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