Sleeping in Car = Camping?

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peter303
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Re: Sleeping in Car = Camping?

Post by peter303 »

I havent seen big problems with car food in Colorado. But in Yosemite car breakins by bears were pretty common and a sign of backcountry newbies. The mother bears trained their cubs.
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easyridertme
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Re: Sleeping in Car = Camping?

Post by easyridertme »

JQDivide wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:42 amI truly feel most bear activity is in the wildland urban interface, where trash cans are easily accessible.
This has very much been my experience as well. Bears routinely try to get into our trash (unsuccessfully, fortunately...) and we do what we can to dissuade them/scare them off when we're around. On the other hand, I have yet to experience a problem with bears while car camping or being in the backcountry. Now, those mini-bears--and in particular, marmots? They're a hell of a lot more bold and can be another story entirely...

To the initial question, I've normally treated "no camping" to include not sleeping in the car, but am starting to rethink that based on the more popular opinion in the thread.
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Tony1
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Re: Sleeping in Car = Camping?

Post by Tony1 »

Although I'm generally a conflict-averse, rule-following kind of person and will likely go somewhere else if I see the sign, I feel very strongly that sleeping in your car counts as parking, not camping, at trailheads. But I've always felt that is the minority opinion, especially among rangers and law enforcement.

I mean, think about it. If you're just sleeping in your car and there's no tent outside, or chairs, etc. then your car is just sitting there. Sitting there the same way whether there's someone sleeping in it or not. It's an incredibly dumb rule IMO.
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Re: Sleeping in Car = Camping?

Post by Scott P »

Tony1 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:11 pm I mean, think about it. If you're just sleeping in your car and there's no tent outside, or chairs, etc. then your car is just sitting there. Sitting there the same way whether there's someone sleeping in it or not. It's an incredibly dumb rule IMO.
For the national parks at least, the reason the don't like people sleeping in their card in day use areas is because it causes overuse of the sanitary facilities. The don't see the vehicles as being a problem, it's people having to use the bathroom.
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Re: Sleeping in Car = Camping?

Post by SkaredShtles »

Tony1 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:11 pm Although I'm generally a conflict-averse, rule-following kind of person and will likely go somewhere else if I see the sign, I feel very strongly that sleeping in your car counts as parking, not camping, at trailheads. But I've always felt that is the minority opinion, especially among rangers and law enforcement.

I mean, think about it. If you're just sleeping in your car and there's no tent outside, or chairs, etc. then your car is just sitting there. Sitting there the same way whether there's someone sleeping in it or not. It's an incredibly dumb rule IMO.
Would sleeping in a vanlyfe van also be OK? How about a motorhome? How about for multiple days?

It's a good rule for "day use" areas.
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Re: Sleeping in Car = Camping?

Post by Wildernessjane »

SkaredShtles wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:26 pm
Tony1 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:11 pm Although I'm generally a conflict-averse, rule-following kind of person and will likely go somewhere else if I see the sign, I feel very strongly that sleeping in your car counts as parking, not camping, at trailheads. But I've always felt that is the minority opinion, especially among rangers and law enforcement.

I mean, think about it. If you're just sleeping in your car and there's no tent outside, or chairs, etc. then your car is just sitting there. Sitting there the same way whether there's someone sleeping in it or not. It's an incredibly dumb rule IMO.
Would sleeping in a vanlyfe van also be OK? How about a motorhome? How about for multiple days?
You’d have to be crazy to set up semi-permanent residence at a popular 14er trailhead in Colorado. I don’t think there is much risk of that becoming a thing.
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Dave B
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Re: Sleeping in Car = Camping?

Post by Dave B »

National Parks Service defines camping as:
"Camping means the erecting of a tent or shelter of natural or synthetic material, preparing a sleeping bag or other bedding material for use, parking of a motor vehicle, motor home or trailer, or mooring of a vessel for the apparent purpose of overnight occupancy."

Forest Service defines camping as:
"Camping" means the temporary use of National Forest System lands for the purpose of overnight occupancy without a permanently fixed structure."

BLM defines camping as:
"Camping is defined as – Erecting of a tent or shelter of natural or synthetic material; preparing a sleeping bag or
other bedding material for use; parking of a motor vehicle, motor home or trailer; or mooring of a vessel for the
apparent purpose of overnight occupancy while engaged in recreational activities such as hiking, hunting, fishing,
bicycling, sightseeing, off-road vehicle activities, or other generally recognized forms of recreation."



So, the signs are clear as per policy and legal legs to stand on when arguing what camping means = zero. You can play dumb, but you probably won't get far, although I guess you could try arguing what "overnight" means. Nonetheless, if you're sleeping in your car where there is a no camping sign, and a ranger or cops finds you, you're going to have to move.
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SkaredShtles
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Re: Sleeping in Car = Camping?

Post by SkaredShtles »

Wildernessjane wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:58 pm
SkaredShtles wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:26 pm Would sleeping in a vanlyfe van also be OK? How about a motorhome? How about for multiple days?
You’d have to be crazy to set up semi-permanent residence at a popular 14er trailhead in Colorado. I don’t think there is much risk of that becoming a thing.
I admire your optimism... but I, for one, am not so optimistic. I suspect if this was allowed, you'd find the Maroon Bells parking lot full of vans and motorhomes EVERY night. :mad:
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JQDivide
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Re: Sleeping in Car = Camping?

Post by JQDivide »

Dave B wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:19 pm ...mooring of a vessel...
I shall start referring to our suburban as a vessel.
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Wildernessjane
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Re: Sleeping in Car = Camping?

Post by Wildernessjane »

SkaredShtles wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:23 pm
Wildernessjane wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:58 pm
SkaredShtles wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:26 pm Would sleeping in a vanlyfe van also be OK? How about a motorhome? How about for multiple days?
You’d have to be crazy to set up semi-permanent residence at a popular 14er trailhead in Colorado. I don’t think there is much risk of that becoming a thing.
I admire your optimism... but I, for one, am not so optimistic. I suspect if this was allowed, you'd find the Maroon Bells parking lot full of vans and motorhomes EVERY night. :mad:
Maroon Bells is a true “day use area” as well as a fee area with legitimate camping areas available nearby so I would agree this should fall under a different category. I’m talking about the less regulated areas like Missouri Gulch Trailhead. People may pull up for a night or two to access the trails but they’re not going to stick around too long. They’re going to find some nice dispersed camping somewhere.
Last edited by Wildernessjane on Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sleeping in Car = Camping?

Post by jrbren_vt »

Scott P wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:16 pm
Tony1 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:11 pm I mean, think about it. If you're just sleeping in your car and there's no tent outside, or chairs, etc. then your car is just sitting there. Sitting there the same way whether there's someone sleeping in it or not. It's an incredibly dumb rule IMO.
For the national parks at least, the reason the don't like people sleeping in their card in day use areas is because it causes overuse of the sanitary facilities. The don't see the vehicles as being a problem, it's people having to use the bathroom.
100% agree with this. The issue is most people sleeping for several hours are going to need to do a #2. If everyone used a pee bottle and wag bag and packed it out, no problem.
No way I am buying many (any?) people do this. The more crowded the trail head, the more of a problem this is. Tent vs. car has nothing to do with it.
This is why I support the ticketing.
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Jon Frohlich
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Re: Sleeping in Car = Camping?

Post by Jon Frohlich »

Scott P wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:16 pm For the national parks at least, the reason the don't like people sleeping in their card in day use areas is because it causes overuse of the sanitary facilities. The don't see the vehicles as being a problem, it's people having to use the bathroom.
Slightly related but a few years we were coming back through Texas from Big Bend and stopped at Guadalupe National Park to do the obvious thing and hike the highpoint of Texas. There were no tent sites available and we weren't sure if it was fine to use an RV space since we were sleeping in the 4Runner. Went over to the camp host and she asked if we were sleeping in the car. We replied yes. With a completely straight face she replied back that we were an RV and to go ahead and pay the fee.

We were far and away the tiniest RV in the lot but we slept great.
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