CB Dispersed Camping

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CaptCO
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CB Dispersed Camping

Post by CaptCO » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:20 am

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Re: CB Dispersed Camping

Post by ker0uac » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:47 am

I see a pattern of mountain communities trying to keep people away from their backyards. It's all under the disguise of environmental policy. Very similar to the zoning restrictions in urban residential communities to restrict multi-family housing units.

But this is ok...
"A new Gunnison Valley community is in the works, with plans to bring approximately 1,700 new housing units, commercial space, a government campus and a new trails system across 633 acres adjacent to Western Colorado University in Gunnison."
http://crestedbuttenews.com/2021/02/new ... nd-trails/
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Re: CB Dispersed Camping

Post by DaveLanders » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:01 am

Some of the dispersed camping issues are really affordable housing problems. A lot of the low paid seasonal workers can't afford to live in the resort communities where they work, so they just camp out in the forest, at least in the warmer months.
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Re: CB Dispersed Camping

Post by CaptCO » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:06 am

DaveLanders wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:01 am
Some of the dispersed camping issues are really affordable housing problems. A lot of the low paid seasonal workers can't afford to live in the resort communities where they work, so they just camp out in the forest, at least in the warmer months.
It’s tough out here for sure. I have a friend who has basically camped out throughout the winter whilst working at a resort. The rich become richer and the poor become.. you know the rest. Not sure if I’ve come to an opinion on this just yet.
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Re: CB Dispersed Camping

Post by ker0uac » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:37 am

Is lack of affordable housing a problem or a symptom? Isn't the problem overdevelopment of communities that just can't keep expanding because of topography? Colorado is a mountain state which means most of its land is taken up by mountains, and yet it has 30 ski resorts, while NY, which is not a mountain state and has lots of flat lands for easy commercial development has 50. Compared that to Idaho, Montana and Utah with 17, 15 and 15 respectively.

I am against most regulations, one of the reasons being it always ends up unfairly benefiting one group versus another. Case in point: Gunnison county implemented lots of temporary restriction last summer that pissed off some powerful people. Now those same powerful people are trying to "buy" officials to defend their interests: https://www.hcn.org/issues/53.1/south-e ... y-hit-back
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Re: CB Dispersed Camping

Post by Chicago Transplant » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:56 am

I think recently a lot of the people who work full time in these towns are being forced out by remote workers. People who can work remote and afford a house are buying them up with cash, sometimes sight unseen. Many of them get multiple cash offers above asking price. Honestly I couldn't afford my own house right now if I had to buy it today, I don't know how people working service jobs can afford to live here any more unless they have at least 3 or 4 people sharing a place. I don't know if this is temporary or permanent, but it picked up with the pandemic and people wanting to escape the city for that clean mountain air. You no longer need a job in an area to live there, so while housing demand used to be tied to local job markets, now we have people living here who don't work for local businesses and the people who need to live near their jobs can't afford to. It takes time to build new housing, and as noted above, it takes land too - which in some cases we don't have because of topography. We don't have the infrastructure either.

As far as the camping plan, I don't have a problem with designated sites if there are enough of them. The problem some places have is that they go the designated sites route and severely under supply them related to the demand. You drive down after work on Friday and everything is full by the time you get there. Its 11pm, now what? Luckily nobody seems to check that late and I am out hiking by 6am so I have gotten away with camping in the trunk of the Outback with no real issues, generally at trailhead parking lots but a few times at just some random wide spot on the side of the road. I usually set up the bed ahead of time so I just park and crawl in the back.

I think the overcamped areas really do have environmental issues though, regardless of what hidden motives may or may not be present. Burn scars, trash, poop, toilet paper, etc. If people could camp cleaner maybe places wouldn't get closed.
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Re: CB Dispersed Camping

Post by CaptCO » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:59 am

Thanks for the post CT, lots of valid points spoken from experience there.
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Re: CB Dispersed Camping

Post by peter303 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:00 pm

I say its the explosive growth of vacation housing. Before the 2000s you could readily find dispersed camping on the outskirts of Aspen and Buena Vista. Now vacation homes impinge right to edge of federal lands. Then they demand and get a couple mile buffer of no camping in the forests themselves to keep the riff-raff far away.
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Re: CB Dispersed Camping

Post by ker0uac » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:12 pm

Chicago Transplant wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:56 am
I think the overcamped areas really do have environmental issues though, regardless of what hidden motives may or may not be present. Burn scars, trash, poop, toilet paper, etc. If people could camp cleaner maybe places wouldn't get closed.
Ok I don't disagree with that. But it seems that we bring up "environment" only when it comes to the use of the outdoors. The "environment" is the whole planet. How can anyone complain about poop and toilete, while receiving multiple Amazon boxes per day or replacing their phones 1x year? How can anyone complain about environmental damage done by hikers while driving a 4Runner everyday to work? It's illogical to only care for the enviroment on the weekends, but very convenient.
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Re: CB Dispersed Camping

Post by Chicago Transplant » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:41 pm

ker0uac wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:12 pm
Chicago Transplant wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:56 am
I think the overcamped areas really do have environmental issues though, regardless of what hidden motives may or may not be present. Burn scars, trash, poop, toilet paper, etc. If people could camp cleaner maybe places wouldn't get closed.
Ok I don't disagree with that. But it seems that we bring up "environment" only when it comes to the use of the outdoors. The "environment" is the whole planet. How can anyone complain about poop and toilete, while receiving multiple Amazon boxes per day or replacing their phones 1x year? How can anyone complain about environmental damage done by hikers while driving a 4Runner everyday to work? It's illogical to only care for the enviroment on the weekends, but very convenient.
Yeah I agree, and it doesn't help when you have to live in Gypsum to work in Vail, 76 miles round trip. Luckily I live in Edwards and work in Avon (15 miles RT) so I can actually bike it from time to time.

I guess trash is just what people see, so it makes people feel good to say they leave no trace? Mentally offsets all the miles spent driving to the trailhead :lol:
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Re: CB Dispersed Camping

Post by madbuck » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:27 pm

Chicago Transplant wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:56 am
As far as the camping plan, I don't have a problem with designated sites if there are enough of them. The problem some places have is that they go the designated sites route and severely under supply them related to the demand. You drive down after work on Friday and everything is full by the time you get there. Its 11pm, now what?
I agree, and this is increasingly the challenge. I can still always find something tolerable for a night on those rare solo nights, but it's tough with the family, who have less tolerance for driving around looking for spots. We barely got a spot a couple summers ago in Brush Creek, at the limit of where I was able or willing to drive the car. But it was a great spot -- I wonder if it will be official now or officially disallowed?

I won't risk Fri after-work anymore with the whole family, only going if I can take off early. So I chuckled when the article here referred to the challenge for 'van lifers' -- it seems to me more and more of the first and prime spots are taken up by monstrous vans. If you have all day/mid-week flexibility, it's way easier than rushing out at the beginning of the weekend.
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Re: CB Dispersed Camping

Post by cottonmountaineering » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:18 pm

madbuck wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:27 pm
Chicago Transplant wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:56 am
As far as the camping plan, I don't have a problem with designated sites if there are enough of them. The problem some places have is that they go the designated sites route and severely under supply them related to the demand. You drive down after work on Friday and everything is full by the time you get there. Its 11pm, now what?
I agree, and this is increasingly the challenge. I can still always find something tolerable for a night on those rare solo nights, but it's tough with the family, who have less tolerance for driving around looking for spots. We barely got a spot a couple summers ago in Brush Creek, at the limit of where I was able or willing to drive the car. But it was a great spot -- I wonder if it will be official now or officially disallowed?

I won't risk Fri after-work anymore with the whole family, only going if I can take off early. So I chuckled when the article here referred to the challenge for 'van lifers' -- it seems to me more and more of the first and prime spots are taken up by monstrous vans. If you have all day/mid-week flexibility, it's way easier than rushing out at the beginning of the weekend.
vanlife has become so much more popular in the past few years, i imagine its contributing to decisions like this
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