Loved. To. Death.

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ker0uac
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by ker0uac » Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:51 am

Jorts wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:54 pm
Dave B wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:48 am
Jorts wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:59 pm
Another trailhead bites the dust. The hordes are slowly suffocating Colorado like a plague of locusts.

A comprehensive list of issues that can be fixed by being whined about on the internet:
1. None
:lol: Don't completely agree. BLM and Metoo had a lot of attention brought to them by justified whining on the internet.
haha so true, I'd replace "issues" with "grievances" and "None" with "Everything"
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
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supranihilest
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by supranihilest » Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:03 am

OP: hordes of people are killing the Gore Range!
Also OP: I never see anyone in the Gore Range!

But seriously, aside from Justin's suggestion to ride a bike, which is a good one, this thread is like 90% rabble rabble teeth gnashing and 0% solution proposing. If you want solitude Colorado high peaks are generally not the place to be. Source: climbed a Colorado high peak or 400. I put this particular trailhead closure more to the elitist NIMBYism of Vail than actual overcrowding.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by DaveLanders » Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:29 am

supranihilest wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:03 am
... I put this particular trailhead closure more to the elitist NIMBYism of Vail than actual overcrowding.
Rich people build a bunch of condos up against public land. Then treat that public land as their private backyard and try to keep the commoners out. Typical Vail
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by stephakett » Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:47 am

supranihilest wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:03 am
OP: hordes of people are killing the Gore Range!
Also OP: I never see anyone in the Gore Range!

But seriously, aside from Justin's suggestion to ride a bike, which is a good one, this thread is like 90% rabble rabble teeth gnashing and 0% solution proposing. If you want solitude Colorado high peaks are generally not the place to be. Source: climbed a Colorado high peak or 400. I put this particular trailhead closure more to the elitist NIMBYism of Vail than actual overcrowding.
NIMBY = Not In My BackYard..?
“My father considered a walk among the mountains as the equivalent of churchgoing.” (Aldous Huxley)
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by jscully205 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:52 am

People are continuing to move to Colorado and clog up popular areas. This probably isn't going to change anytime soon. The only solution I see is to travel further in the backcountry and climb harder if your goal is to get away from people.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by supranihilest » Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:54 am

stephakett wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:47 am
supranihilest wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:03 am
OP: hordes of people are killing the Gore Range!
Also OP: I never see anyone in the Gore Range!

But seriously, aside from Justin's suggestion to ride a bike, which is a good one, this thread is like 90% rabble rabble teeth gnashing and 0% solution proposing. If you want solitude Colorado high peaks are generally not the place to be. Source: climbed a Colorado high peak or 400. I put this particular trailhead closure more to the elitist NIMBYism of Vail than actual overcrowding.
NIMBY = Not In My BackYard..?
Yup. Often used as a pejorative, including in my case. Vail wants to eat its cake and have it too.
ker0uac
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by ker0uac » Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:16 am

The californization of Colorado is becoming very apparent... veiled elitism being sold as environmental policies
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by jibler » Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:22 pm

they laughed when I proposed a land swap to get better access to eastern half of Gores in exchange for something vail could develop on the other side


but maybe someday that plan might sound better?
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by shelly+ » Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:30 pm

supranihilest wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:54 am
Vail wants to eat its cake and have it too.
ker0uac wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:16 am
veiled elitism being sold as environmental policies
that's clever... vailed elitism.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by BillMiddlebrook » Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:40 pm

I won’t complain about the number of people visiting these areas because I think it’s great that people get outside and enjoy Colorado and the crowds can be avoided as has been mentioned. You won’t see a “Native” sticker on my truck and I chuckle when I see em. Anyway...

As far as the the Vail area trailheads, they are fairly unique because they 1) are off paved roads and the Interstate, 2) have parking issues, 3) get tons of traffic from casual hikers drawn to Vail. Willow Creek in Silverthorne is similar.

In my opinion, Pitkin and/or Bighorn would be the next to change, simply due to parking issues. Bighorn has parking for like 6 cars and there's no land to expand parking because residential has engulfed that small area. It's basically a drop-off "trailhead" now.

Gore Creek/Deluge is a different story and certainly more sustainable. I use these trails a lot in summer and don't see overuse issues like Booth Falls. Gore Creek has a lot of parking, is next to the campground, and because the entire area is Forest Service Land, it could be expanded. Recently they added some porta-toilets but some permanent bathrooms would really be beneficial to this trailhead. Additionally, the Gore Creek trail connects to both the Meadow Creek and Gore Range trails, connecting Vail to Silverthorne and Frisco.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Chicago Transplant » Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:43 pm

I see it primarily as a problem of having a Wilderness area paralleling a major interstate with trailheads in a residential neighborhood. It doesn't exactly lend itself to environmentally sensitive use. The parking issues and homeowners aside, there is definitely some education needed for many of the trail users on what is expected in a Wilderness area. That goes for a lot of popular areas that are in Wilderness whether its Booth Falls, or Mt Bierstadt. The environmental impacts, impacts to Wildlife or other guest's experiences, as we see here can lead to impacts to our access. Maybe its easy to point to entitled homeowners, but think about every time you've come across a person on trail that you thought was rude or trashing the place and now put all of them parking in your backyard 7 days a week. I get it, the parking restrictions in Vail are hard on people trying to hike peaks. 3HR parking limits, areas with no parking allowed from 10pm-7am, sure make those Gore summits harder to attain because you can't get an alpine start or finish your hike in 3HRs. As Bill notes, Gore Creek is different, that is because its the only Vail TH that is on FS land instead of Town of Vail property.

As far as education, we do have the "Eagle-Summit Wilderness Alliance", formerly "Friends of the Eagles Nest Wilderness", which I volunteer with. We do volunteer ranger hikes and are now also adding a trailhead hosts for information share at popular trailheads through the summer busy season. Hopefully that outreach will help. I am not in support of shutting people out, I just want the people who use Wilderness (all of it, not just here) to learn how to treat it right. I have seen a lot of things on that trail that I wish weren't abandoned so it could have been a chance to educate the trail users. Sure there is always the occasional bit of trash, but I mean bigger things like fire rings above treeline or in some cases practically on the shore of Booth Lake, exposed dog and human waste/tp, or the time I found half a sandwich abandoned on a rock in the creek with nobody around. I once had a guest ask me why I was picking up food scraps (it was an apple core) and that I should just leave it for the wildlife to eat. At least that time I got to explain why that is bad for the animals.

The homeowners aren't off the hook either, aside from being some of the most vocal opponents to being asked to leash their dogs I once found a loose dog running around with no owner, whom I assumed was lost. Later came to find out he was the dog of a resident from near the trailhead. They said he likes to run up the trail so they just let him run around up there while they are sitting at home in their house.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by BillMiddlebrook » Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:48 pm

Mike, it’s funny that you mentioned the residential dogs issue. Yeah, I see that a lot as well. Weird. A feeling of entitlement, I suppose.
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